6 ms·

> In general I consider ads to be unethical cognitive burden. I agree. > The exception is if the site owner keeps the lights on by incorporating non-tracking

> In general I consider ads to be unethical cognitive burden. I agree. > The exception is if the site owner keeps the lights on by incorporating non-tracking advertising, it would feel scummy to block off their ads and just take the good content. I disagree - if content cannot survive without advertisement, then we're better off without it anyway. Non-tracking advertising is less bad than advertising, but it's still intrusive and not-called-for, just like all advertising.

kqr 4y ago
You mean if the content does not cater to people who are well-off enough to pay for it with money? There are many people who simply don't have the financial means to support all the content they like. Does that content not deserve to exist? Should quality internet content really be a class question?
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  No, I'm just saying if it's important, someone will want to preserve it, and it will survive. If nobody does, then it's not important.
  - frereubu 4y ago
    That's a very specific definition of important. Thought experiment: what about a free website that shows people where their nearest food bank is?
    - cupofpython 4y ago
      they can appeal for grants and funds as a non-profit to keep it running. why does such a website need to make a profit?
      - frereubu 4y ago
        I wasn't suggesting that they need to make a profit, just enough to pay for hosting and maintenance time.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  This is a really disingenuous argument that can justify all sorts of ridiculous stuff, the least of which would be the predatory and toxic mobile game industry
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    Im pretty sure predatory and toxic mobile game industry would fall under the same (or worse) categorization as ads, so would fall under the same logic of "if you cant afford to run your website without doing something unethical, then your website doesnt deserve to run"
    - Firmwarrior 4y ago
      Amen to that. The toxic casino games have choked out 99.99% of the actual games, and that model is now spreading out to other platforms like a cancer. Back to ads, it sounds like living in a corporate dystopian nightmare where your every move is tracked and you're constantly manipulated is somehow the "woke" option in this discussion. Great. I could easily host a local Facebook-esque site for a hundred friends and family for less than $10 a month. I wouldn't need all their apps and every website they use to participate in a spy network to make it work, either.
bruce343434 4y ago
> if content cannot survive without advertisement Goodbye, niche knowledge sites, I suppose
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  Goodbye, 99.9% of content we all regularly read.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Speak for yourself.
  - midislack 4y ago
    Do it. I dare you. You won't take your site offline, nobody else will either.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Niche knowledge sites don't use a lot of bandwidth, and in a lot of cases can easily survive on the donations of niche knowledge fanatics (especially after the rise of patreon and substack.) The real niche knowledge sites who can't survive without advertisement are trade magazines, and if the ads are specific to the niche (rather than generic intrusive ad auction chum), their readers value the ads almost as much as they value the content.
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  Most niche sites I know are completely ad free. What are some that live off ads?
- alanh 4y ago
  they don’t make enough off ads anyway
FalconSensei 4y ago
> I disagree - if content cannot survive without advertisement, then we're better off without it anyway. So radio and TV should have never existed?
- mirntyfirty 4y ago
  I think he meant advertising plus all the tracking that goes on.
  - FalconSensei 4y ago
    the phrase I quoted is followed by: > Non-tracking advertising is less bad than advertising, but it's still intrusive and not-called-for, just like all advertising. So yeah, they are against all forms of ads
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  In the current form, yes.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  s/So/& commercial/ There are noncommercial models for broadcast media, and the fact that some countries ended up with the vast wasteland[1] that is commercially-supported broadcast television and radio isn't an inevitability. It was made to happen, by commercial interests. It could well have been different in the US, and still is in numerous other regions. See Robert W. McChesney's Telecommunications, mass media and democracy : the battle for control of U.S. broadcasting, 1928-35 (1995) https://www.worldcat.org/title/telecommunications-mass-media-and-democracy-the-battle-for-control-of-us-broadcasting-1928-35/oclc/477338214 https://www.worldcat.org/title/telecommunications-mass-media... https://archive.org/details/telecommunicatio00mcch https://archive.org/details/telecommunicatio00mcch https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=05E6FC47CE851CB143F1DD47B99D19AA https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=05E6FC47CE851CB143F1DD4... ________________________________ Notes: 1. FCC Commissioner Newton Minnow, 1961 https://vimeo.com/55481067 https://vimeo.com/55481067 https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-05-06/newton-minow-tv-vast-wasteland https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-05-06/newton-min...
chollida1 4y ago
I mean, this is not a well thought out idea. Google wouldn't exist if it couldn't support itself. Neither would 99.99% of websites available. Think of how many sites, are available just because they can cover their costs by putting adds on their site.
- kjs3 4y ago
  Think of how many of those sites are absolutely worthless vehicles who are really only available for the purposes of displaying ads.

kqr 4y ago

You mean if the content does not cater to people who are well-off enough to pay for it with money? There are many people who simply don't have the financial means to support all the content they like. Does that content not deserve to exist? Should quality internet content really be a class question?

paskozdilar 4y ago
No, I'm just saying if it's important, someone will want to preserve it, and it will survive. If nobody does, then it's not important.
- frereubu 4y ago
  That's a very specific definition of important. Thought experiment: what about a free website that shows people where their nearest food bank is?
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    they can appeal for grants and funds as a non-profit to keep it running. why does such a website need to make a profit?
    - frereubu 4y ago
      I wasn't suggesting that they need to make a profit, just enough to pay for hosting and maintenance time.
Firmwarrior 4y ago
This is a really disingenuous argument that can justify all sorts of ridiculous stuff, the least of which would be the predatory and toxic mobile game industry
- cupofpython 4y ago
  Im pretty sure predatory and toxic mobile game industry would fall under the same (or worse) categorization as ads, so would fall under the same logic of "if you cant afford to run your website without doing something unethical, then your website doesnt deserve to run"
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    Amen to that. The toxic casino games have choked out 99.99% of the actual games, and that model is now spreading out to other platforms like a cancer. Back to ads, it sounds like living in a corporate dystopian nightmare where your every move is tracked and you're constantly manipulated is somehow the "woke" option in this discussion. Great. I could easily host a local Facebook-esque site for a hundred friends and family for less than $10 a month. I wouldn't need all their apps and every website they use to participate in a spy network to make it work, either.

bruce343434 4y ago

> if content cannot survive without advertisement Goodbye, niche knowledge sites, I suppose

edmundsauto 4y ago
Goodbye, 99.9% of content we all regularly read.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Speak for yourself.
- midislack 4y ago
  Do it. I dare you. You won't take your site offline, nobody else will either.
pessimizer 4y ago
Niche knowledge sites don't use a lot of bandwidth, and in a lot of cases can easily survive on the donations of niche knowledge fanatics (especially after the rise of patreon and substack.) The real niche knowledge sites who can't survive without advertisement are trade magazines, and if the ads are specific to the niche (rather than generic intrusive ad auction chum), their readers value the ads almost as much as they value the content.
paskozdilar 4y ago
Most niche sites I know are completely ad free. What are some that live off ads?
alanh 4y ago
they don’t make enough off ads anyway

FalconSensei 4y ago

> I disagree - if content cannot survive without advertisement, then we're better off without it anyway. So radio and TV should have never existed?

mirntyfirty 4y ago
I think he meant advertising plus all the tracking that goes on.
- FalconSensei 4y ago
  the phrase I quoted is followed by: > Non-tracking advertising is less bad than advertising, but it's still intrusive and not-called-for, just like all advertising. So yeah, they are against all forms of ads
paskozdilar 4y ago
In the current form, yes.
dredmorbius 4y ago
s/So/& commercial/ There are noncommercial models for broadcast media, and the fact that some countries ended up with the vast wasteland[1] that is commercially-supported broadcast television and radio isn't an inevitability. It was made to happen, by commercial interests. It could well have been different in the US, and still is in numerous other regions. See Robert W. McChesney's Telecommunications, mass media and democracy : the battle for control of U.S. broadcasting, 1928-35 (1995) https://www.worldcat.org/title/telecommunications-mass-media-and-democracy-the-battle-for-control-of-us-broadcasting-1928-35/oclc/477338214 https://www.worldcat.org/title/telecommunications-mass-media... https://archive.org/details/telecommunicatio00mcch https://archive.org/details/telecommunicatio00mcch https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=05E6FC47CE851CB143F1DD47B99D19AA https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=05E6FC47CE851CB143F1DD4... ________________________________ Notes: 1. FCC Commissioner Newton Minnow, 1961 https://vimeo.com/55481067 https://vimeo.com/55481067 https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-05-06/newton-minow-tv-vast-wasteland https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-05-06/newton-min...

chollida1 4y ago

I mean, this is not a well thought out idea. Google wouldn't exist if it couldn't support itself. Neither would 99.99% of websites available. Think of how many sites, are available just because they can cover their costs by putting adds on their site.

kjs3 4y ago
Think of how many of those sites are absolutely worthless vehicles who are really only available for the purposes of displaying ads.