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> More than obedience, it probably is the aspect that they're smart and determined to succeed. Yup that's what it's about! The problem with trying to test how

by s17n 4y ago

> More than obedience, it probably is the aspect that they're smart and determined to succeed. Yup that's what it's about! The problem with trying to test how good you are at the job is that you simply can't do it in a 1 hour (or even a 1 day) interview. You can however assess how smart somebody is, which is definitely correlated to job performance. It's also connected to growth potential - even if it were somehow possible to accurately measure how good a programmer a candidate is at the moment they are applying for the job, companies would still want to try to predict how good they are likely to be over the next few years.

biztos 4y ago
> You can however assess how smart somebody is Are you saying the Leetcode-style interview assesses how smart someone is?
- adsfoiu1 4y ago
  Not OP, and I don't think it directly indicates how smart you are, but it does show you are at or above some smartness threshold (i.e. smart enough to get the answer). If you don't get the answer, you might still be above that smartness threshold, but didn't get it for some other reason (didn't have time to study, didn't sleep enough the night before, interview anxiety, etc.).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- l33t2328 4y ago
  Yes, being able to understand and apply algorithms and data structures requires some intelligence. I know we try to stay away from the “we’re smarter than you” vibe here because it’s gross, but pretending leetcode style questions don’t require some degree of complex thought is absurd.
  - memonkey 4y ago
    You can memorize a lot of them and forget everything in a year.
    - dilyevsky 4y ago
      If enough people are doing it higher iq folks will bubble up in calibration
      - nowherebeen 4y ago
        Which at the end of the day still doesn't test that you can do the job.
        dilyevsky 4y ago
        Ok but it does tho - all other things being equal and you better believe it they do have other type of interviews not just lc
        nowherebeen 4y ago
        Ok, tell me what other types of interviews do they do other than system design, leetcode, and behaviorial for engineering?
        dilyevsky 4y ago
        Lol yeah apart from sanitation, the medicine, education, wine and public order what have the romans ever done to us? In your view that’s not enough to make an informed eng hire?
        l33t2328 4y ago
        Exactly. If you have a candidate who can design good systems, solve complex algorithmic problems, and play nice with others, then I’d say that’s a pretty strong candidate.
weatherlite 4y ago
> You can however assess how smart somebody is Why not just give candidates a standard IQ test then? They are probably more reliable than Leetcode...
- synergy20 4y ago
  IQ does not tell determination/hard-working-attitude at all, in fact many with high IQ ended up being nobody, as high IQ makes learning relatively easier, most got used to that and just let the 'grit' go. leetcode is the SAT for coding, not perfect, but at least it's close to fair play.
  - corrral 4y ago
    > leetcode is the SAT for coding, not perfect, but at least it's close to fair play. It would be amazing if leetcode were like the SAT, and you could just get one good score and then never think about it again. Anything like that would make it much lower-friction to switch between FAANGs (and friends), though, which I suspect is a big part of why they've settled on doing things this way.
    - jxramos 4y ago
      That’s a fascinating idea. Get companies to accept some form of standardized testing and have it be transferable. That would greatly increase the motivation behind its studies I would presume.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - wyclif 4y ago
        Sure it's a great idea and hiring culture would be so much better if it happened, but I think the parent is correct that companies want friction at that point. None of them want to make it easier for talent to jump ship and transfer.
      - 4y ago
chris11 4y ago
And algorithmic questions are a straightforward way to get a scalable, structured interview round. It's difficult to entirely replace algorithmic rounds with questions that are both scalable and structured.

by s17n 4y ago

biztos 4y ago

> You can however assess how smart somebody is Are you saying the Leetcode-style interview assesses how smart someone is?

adsfoiu1 4y ago
Not OP, and I don't think it directly indicates how smart you are, but it does show you are at or above some smartness threshold (i.e. smart enough to get the answer). If you don't get the answer, you might still be above that smartness threshold, but didn't get it for some other reason (didn't have time to study, didn't sleep enough the night before, interview anxiety, etc.).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
l33t2328 4y ago
Yes, being able to understand and apply algorithms and data structures requires some intelligence. I know we try to stay away from the “we’re smarter than you” vibe here because it’s gross, but pretending leetcode style questions don’t require some degree of complex thought is absurd.
- memonkey 4y ago
  You can memorize a lot of them and forget everything in a year.
  - dilyevsky 4y ago
    If enough people are doing it higher iq folks will bubble up in calibration
    - nowherebeen 4y ago
      Which at the end of the day still doesn't test that you can do the job.
      - dilyevsky 4y ago
        Ok but it does tho - all other things being equal and you better believe it they do have other type of interviews not just lc
        nowherebeen 4y ago
        Ok, tell me what other types of interviews do they do other than system design, leetcode, and behaviorial for engineering?
        dilyevsky 4y ago
        Lol yeah apart from sanitation, the medicine, education, wine and public order what have the romans ever done to us? In your view that’s not enough to make an informed eng hire?
        l33t2328 4y ago
        Exactly. If you have a candidate who can design good systems, solve complex algorithmic problems, and play nice with others, then I’d say that’s a pretty strong candidate.

weatherlite 4y ago

> You can however assess how smart somebody is Why not just give candidates a standard IQ test then? They are probably more reliable than Leetcode...

synergy20 4y ago
IQ does not tell determination/hard-working-attitude at all, in fact many with high IQ ended up being nobody, as high IQ makes learning relatively easier, most got used to that and just let the 'grit' go. leetcode is the SAT for coding, not perfect, but at least it's close to fair play.
- corrral 4y ago
  > leetcode is the SAT for coding, not perfect, but at least it's close to fair play. It would be amazing if leetcode were like the SAT, and you could just get one good score and then never think about it again. Anything like that would make it much lower-friction to switch between FAANGs (and friends), though, which I suspect is a big part of why they've settled on doing things this way.
  - jxramos 4y ago
    That’s a fascinating idea. Get companies to accept some form of standardized testing and have it be transferable. That would greatly increase the motivation behind its studies I would presume.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - wyclif 4y ago
      Sure it's a great idea and hiring culture would be so much better if it happened, but I think the parent is correct that companies want friction at that point. None of them want to make it easier for talent to jump ship and transfer.
    - 4y ago

chris11 4y ago

And algorithmic questions are a straightforward way to get a scalable, structured interview round. It's difficult to entirely replace algorithmic rounds with questions that are both scalable and structured.