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Although it's always good news to have Linux on more device, in the case of Apple I find it a bit problematic. That means you encourage Apple getting a huge cut

Although it's always good news to have Linux on more device, in the case of Apple I find it a bit problematic. That means you encourage Apple getting a huge cut on device sale. Or further justify the high prices of second-hand device because now you can 'give them a second-life' (to counter Apple's in-house planned obsolescence program). It's not just about freedom. Apple's walled-garden means you need in every company some "Apple guy" that owns an iPhone, iPad, etc to test Safari quirks. It really feels like an under-handed racket.

usrn 4y ago
What? These devices would be running Firefox not Safari.
tmikaeld 4y ago
There will be millions of no-longer-supported Apple units out there, it makes sense to give them a second life with Linux rather than throwing them in a landfill. And linux on it would not run Apple apps, it would run Firefox or Chromium.
- rtpg 4y ago
  So loads of people have testified that using old Androids as long term computing devices just doesn't work cuz the machines can't deal with being on all the time. I wonder if iPhones and the like are any different on this front. Would you be able to build up a little serve farm of these things?
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    That's kind of weird, since phones are generally on all the time when being actively used. I guess it depends on what active/sleep "modes" are available - ie can Linux on Apple run processes with the screen asleep or whatever. As long as it's plugged in, it should be workable, maybe. But, in my mind, you wouldn't try to build a server farm out of 5+ year old iPads. Instead, you'd continue to use them as consumption devices. Read books, browse web, ie all the things most iPads are doing when new.
    - rtpg 4y ago
      I believe what people have said is that the components can’t handle continuous use (instead of basically idling on user input). Even when being in use for the most part these machines just are rendering some textures onto the screen and the cpu is not doing much
      - alistairSH 4y ago
        That wouldn't surprise me. Could still be fun for tinkering and light consumption.
      - newswasboring 4y ago
        Oh damn. That sort of explains why my phone gets super hot when I try to solve a project euler problems on it. I never thought about this.
      - zozbot234 4y ago
        > I believe what people have said is that the components can’t handle continuous use That could be worked around by using the existing Linux featureset to manage hardware utilization. Especially if CPU/GPU use turns out to be the main issue (as opposed to, e.g. powering the display and radio components).
  - usrn 4y ago
    The Android userspace is absolutely god awful and makes those projects hard. This would be running straight GNU/Xorg/wayland.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  I think they are just saying if you buy an Apple device to install Linux on it, you are still supporting Apple (including their walled garden approach). Not to mention Apple is constantly fighting against these sorts of hacks so you'll always be playing mouse in their cat-and-mouse game
  - tmikaeld 4y ago
    I'm all for open hardware, but objectively, it's either landfill or Linux, I'd rather see it come to use than become useless.
  - jraph 4y ago
    I completely agree with this line of thinking. That would almost makes me against this kind of projects. However, thinking about the consequences completely flips the coin for me: - without these projects, Apple will still continue doing whatever they are doing - I don't expect many people to actually buy a new iThing because of these projects. Maybe they'd buy second hand iThings on which Linux is guaranteed to work. So Apple is not making new money with this - Yes, they may save some devices from the landfill - it might show Apple that yes, opening their devices a bit may actually increase their sales (but I would not count on it) If I ever need a tablet and these projects work out without too many drawbacks, I'd actually probably consider getting a second hand iPad and install Linux on it. At this point I'd rather avoid both Android and iOS. I'd probably look into Pine64's (and other such manufacturers) devices first though. I hope these projects will help save 2 old iPad 2 sleeping somewhere in my family. These otherwise perfectly capable devices are worthless now just because of one thing: the old version of Safari combined with the fact that Apple forbids browsers with alternative browser engines on these devices. That's so dumb. And I'd probably prefer using existing devices than buying new ones if possible. So, yes please, port Linux to the Apple devices!
refracture 4y ago
The only thing I could imagine Apple doing with regards to seeing Linux running on their mobile hardware is further engineer ways to prevent it. I'm personally hoping Apple A5 devices are able to run Linux too as my iPad 2 is 11 years old, has a great battery and is in good condition but hasn't seen a software update in years.
sgjohnson 4y ago
> to counter Apple's in-house planned obsolescence program Apple does not do planned obsolescence. iPhone 6S is going to be be supported for 8 years total. (It's not going to receive feature updates anymore, as iOS 16 won't support it, but it also means that iOS 15 gets another year of support)
- fartcannon 4y ago
  The updates that downgrade the battery life without having user replaceable batteries is planned obsolescence.
  - sgjohnson 4y ago
    Batteries are consumable, and there's not a shred of evidence that Apple is purposefully downgrading battery life with updates.
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      - refracture 4y ago
        To be clear it's not that they 'downgraded' battery life, it's that it throttled power draw (and by extension performance) if the phone determined that the battery could no longer reliably power the device at peak draw. Apple's failure to communicate this and give users the option to set power draw back to full (with an explanation of consequences) is exactly why they got sued and deserved to lose. It's up front and made clear in the battery settings menu, but it really should not have required a law suit to make that happen, they've nobody but themselves to blame for the perception that they were just being greedy and trying to coerce people into new phones by hobbling existing ones. I will say on the user experience side I did appreciate that in the aftermath of this we were able to get a new battery in an affected iPhone 6S for free straight from the Apple store. Got some serious mileage out of that phone.
ntoskrnl 4y ago
Let's say I have an iPhone 6 that stopped receiving updates. What do you suggest I do with it: - landfill - install Linux - something else?
- Synaesthesia 4y ago
  Use as an iPod, it's got a headphone jack which is rather nifty, also still works fine as a basic phone, you can have the battery replaced quite cheaply.
  - NeutronStar 4y ago
    And what do I do with my new phone? Just leave it there while I use the older iPhone? No. Realistically you'll use the new phone. The old iPhone is still not going to be used. So what do we do with them now? We install Linux or we just trash it?
    - turtlebits 4y ago
      Sell it or repurpose it, just like anything that gets replaced (fridge, blender, car, etc..)? Just because your old device doesn't support linux doesn't mean it's a brick. (Surely you were aware before you bought the device that it doesn't support linux).
- robin_reala 4y ago
  - The back camera is probably better than your current webcam - It can make a good pet or baby monitor (several apps that do this have extremely long support schedules because they know people will reuse old phones) - If you’re going to dispose of it, return it to Apple for recycling rather than landfill
- rvz 4y ago
  > - something else? Recycling it would benefit the planet more right?
- Klonoar 4y ago
  Recycle it with Apple. I don’t understand this desire to keep arbitrary old devices around. I only do it for as long as I need a device for testing (iOS dev). They simply have no value past this.
gruturo 4y ago
> (to counter Apple's in-house planned obsolescence program) iPhones are famous for being supported A LOT longer than almost any other phone. There are manufacturers which abandon you after the 2nd year, and if you buy a model near the end of its sale period, that can mean as little as 13-14 months on a brand new phone. Some iPhones have been, are, or will be supported for 6, 7, even 8 years - which is ridiculously good in comparison, and often the reasons for dropping a model are quite clear (only 1G of RAM, would swap/OOMkill like crazy, or lack of a 64-bit CPU). You could debate some of these reasons, you could debate when none are provided, you could argue about why a certain model had so little RAM to begin with, and of course there have been poorly handled issues like batterygate or certain iOS versions being brutally slow on old models (though it's been years since it last happened).... but frankly, this is an odd choice of a hill to die on.
- drexlspivey 4y ago
  I am still using my 2012 ipad with iOS 9 to watch youtube and Plex
  - captn3m0 4y ago
    Running iOS8 on my iPad 2 to read books and comics.
    - mobilio 4y ago
      I'm still using iPad 2 for ebooks too.
    - jraph 4y ago
      The iPad 2 is a perfect example. It is good some people still find use for it. However, it is a device that would be perfectly capable of being used to surf the web… but Apple stopped releasing updates for Safari and forbids alternative browser engines for iOS. The web is essentially broken on it, and I'm not even talking about the security issues that it probably has as a consequence.. I'd say it is exactly the example of a device that is today unusable for many things its hardware could handle just fine for no good reason, and therefore obsolete for many people. Obsolete because of its closed nature. This obsolescence was planned. Maybe not intentionally to make you buy a new one, but still bad and the consequences are the same. Many people probably replaced their iPad 2 with a new tablet for exactly this reason. Or bought a new tablet even if they still use their iPad 2 for the uses cases the iPad 2 is not capable of handling anymore. Apple should be legally forced to enable third parties to support this hardware. Next time you consider buying closed hardware (not just Apple, and Android tablets are certainly problematic too), think about the iPad 2. Closed => Waste.
scarface74 4y ago
You need a lot more “Android guys” to keep Android usable on old phones when the manufacturer drops support in a year..
jacquesm 4y ago
It beats devices going into the landfill or being scrapped, this gives millions of machines a second lease on life. For people who for instance can't afford anything else.

usrn 4y ago

What? These devices would be running Firefox not Safari.

tmikaeld 4y ago

There will be millions of no-longer-supported Apple units out there, it makes sense to give them a second life with Linux rather than throwing them in a landfill. And linux on it would not run Apple apps, it would run Firefox or Chromium.

rtpg 4y ago
So loads of people have testified that using old Androids as long term computing devices just doesn't work cuz the machines can't deal with being on all the time. I wonder if iPhones and the like are any different on this front. Would you be able to build up a little serve farm of these things?
- alistairSH 4y ago
  That's kind of weird, since phones are generally on all the time when being actively used. I guess it depends on what active/sleep "modes" are available - ie can Linux on Apple run processes with the screen asleep or whatever. As long as it's plugged in, it should be workable, maybe. But, in my mind, you wouldn't try to build a server farm out of 5+ year old iPads. Instead, you'd continue to use them as consumption devices. Read books, browse web, ie all the things most iPads are doing when new.
  - rtpg 4y ago
    I believe what people have said is that the components can’t handle continuous use (instead of basically idling on user input). Even when being in use for the most part these machines just are rendering some textures onto the screen and the cpu is not doing much
    - alistairSH 4y ago
      That wouldn't surprise me. Could still be fun for tinkering and light consumption.
    - newswasboring 4y ago
      Oh damn. That sort of explains why my phone gets super hot when I try to solve a project euler problems on it. I never thought about this.
    - zozbot234 4y ago
      > I believe what people have said is that the components can’t handle continuous use That could be worked around by using the existing Linux featureset to manage hardware utilization. Especially if CPU/GPU use turns out to be the main issue (as opposed to, e.g. powering the display and radio components).
- usrn 4y ago
  The Android userspace is absolutely god awful and makes those projects hard. This would be running straight GNU/Xorg/wayland.
woojoo666 4y ago
I think they are just saying if you buy an Apple device to install Linux on it, you are still supporting Apple (including their walled garden approach). Not to mention Apple is constantly fighting against these sorts of hacks so you'll always be playing mouse in their cat-and-mouse game
- tmikaeld 4y ago
  I'm all for open hardware, but objectively, it's either landfill or Linux, I'd rather see it come to use than become useless.
- jraph 4y ago
  I completely agree with this line of thinking. That would almost makes me against this kind of projects. However, thinking about the consequences completely flips the coin for me: - without these projects, Apple will still continue doing whatever they are doing - I don't expect many people to actually buy a new iThing because of these projects. Maybe they'd buy second hand iThings on which Linux is guaranteed to work. So Apple is not making new money with this - Yes, they may save some devices from the landfill - it might show Apple that yes, opening their devices a bit may actually increase their sales (but I would not count on it) If I ever need a tablet and these projects work out without too many drawbacks, I'd actually probably consider getting a second hand iPad and install Linux on it. At this point I'd rather avoid both Android and iOS. I'd probably look into Pine64's (and other such manufacturers) devices first though. I hope these projects will help save 2 old iPad 2 sleeping somewhere in my family. These otherwise perfectly capable devices are worthless now just because of one thing: the old version of Safari combined with the fact that Apple forbids browsers with alternative browser engines on these devices. That's so dumb. And I'd probably prefer using existing devices than buying new ones if possible. So, yes please, port Linux to the Apple devices!

refracture 4y ago

The only thing I could imagine Apple doing with regards to seeing Linux running on their mobile hardware is further engineer ways to prevent it. I'm personally hoping Apple A5 devices are able to run Linux too as my iPad 2 is 11 years old, has a great battery and is in good condition but hasn't seen a software update in years.

sgjohnson 4y ago

> to counter Apple's in-house planned obsolescence program Apple does not do planned obsolescence. iPhone 6S is going to be be supported for 8 years total. (It's not going to receive feature updates anymore, as iOS 16 won't support it, but it also means that iOS 15 gets another year of support)

fartcannon 4y ago
The updates that downgrade the battery life without having user replaceable batteries is planned obsolescence.
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  Batteries are consumable, and there's not a shred of evidence that Apple is purposefully downgrading battery life with updates.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    - refracture 4y ago
      To be clear it's not that they 'downgraded' battery life, it's that it throttled power draw (and by extension performance) if the phone determined that the battery could no longer reliably power the device at peak draw. Apple's failure to communicate this and give users the option to set power draw back to full (with an explanation of consequences) is exactly why they got sued and deserved to lose. It's up front and made clear in the battery settings menu, but it really should not have required a law suit to make that happen, they've nobody but themselves to blame for the perception that they were just being greedy and trying to coerce people into new phones by hobbling existing ones. I will say on the user experience side I did appreciate that in the aftermath of this we were able to get a new battery in an affected iPhone 6S for free straight from the Apple store. Got some serious mileage out of that phone.

ntoskrnl 4y ago

Let's say I have an iPhone 6 that stopped receiving updates. What do you suggest I do with it: - landfill - install Linux - something else?

Synaesthesia 4y ago
Use as an iPod, it's got a headphone jack which is rather nifty, also still works fine as a basic phone, you can have the battery replaced quite cheaply.
- NeutronStar 4y ago
  And what do I do with my new phone? Just leave it there while I use the older iPhone? No. Realistically you'll use the new phone. The old iPhone is still not going to be used. So what do we do with them now? We install Linux or we just trash it?
  - turtlebits 4y ago
    Sell it or repurpose it, just like anything that gets replaced (fridge, blender, car, etc..)? Just because your old device doesn't support linux doesn't mean it's a brick. (Surely you were aware before you bought the device that it doesn't support linux).
robin_reala 4y ago
- The back camera is probably better than your current webcam - It can make a good pet or baby monitor (several apps that do this have extremely long support schedules because they know people will reuse old phones) - If you’re going to dispose of it, return it to Apple for recycling rather than landfill
rvz 4y ago
> - something else? Recycling it would benefit the planet more right?
Klonoar 4y ago
Recycle it with Apple. I don’t understand this desire to keep arbitrary old devices around. I only do it for as long as I need a device for testing (iOS dev). They simply have no value past this.

gruturo 4y ago

> (to counter Apple's in-house planned obsolescence program) iPhones are famous for being supported A LOT longer than almost any other phone. There are manufacturers which abandon you after the 2nd year, and if you buy a model near the end of its sale period, that can mean as little as 13-14 months on a brand new phone. Some iPhones have been, are, or will be supported for 6, 7, even 8 years - which is ridiculously good in comparison, and often the reasons for dropping a model are quite clear (only 1G of RAM, would swap/OOMkill like crazy, or lack of a 64-bit CPU). You could debate some of these reasons, you could debate when none are provided, you could argue about why a certain model had so little RAM to begin with, and of course there have been poorly handled issues like batterygate or certain iOS versions being brutally slow on old models (though it's been years since it last happened).... but frankly, this is an odd choice of a hill to die on.

drexlspivey 4y ago
I am still using my 2012 ipad with iOS 9 to watch youtube and Plex
- captn3m0 4y ago
  Running iOS8 on my iPad 2 to read books and comics.
  - mobilio 4y ago
    I'm still using iPad 2 for ebooks too.
  - jraph 4y ago
    The iPad 2 is a perfect example. It is good some people still find use for it. However, it is a device that would be perfectly capable of being used to surf the web… but Apple stopped releasing updates for Safari and forbids alternative browser engines for iOS. The web is essentially broken on it, and I'm not even talking about the security issues that it probably has as a consequence.. I'd say it is exactly the example of a device that is today unusable for many things its hardware could handle just fine for no good reason, and therefore obsolete for many people. Obsolete because of its closed nature. This obsolescence was planned. Maybe not intentionally to make you buy a new one, but still bad and the consequences are the same. Many people probably replaced their iPad 2 with a new tablet for exactly this reason. Or bought a new tablet even if they still use their iPad 2 for the uses cases the iPad 2 is not capable of handling anymore. Apple should be legally forced to enable third parties to support this hardware. Next time you consider buying closed hardware (not just Apple, and Android tablets are certainly problematic too), think about the iPad 2. Closed => Waste.

scarface74 4y ago

You need a lot more “Android guys” to keep Android usable on old phones when the manufacturer drops support in a year..

jacquesm 4y ago

It beats devices going into the landfill or being scrapped, this gives millions of machines a second lease on life. For people who for instance can't afford anything else.