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Systemic problems being blamed on individuals is not going to help. Of course society is a shared responsibility model essentially but it means even a highly sk

Systemic problems being blamed on individuals is not going to help. Of course society is a shared responsibility model essentially but it means even a highly skilled and otherwise technically competent and qualified engineer in an inadequately structured system can regularly produce garbage work. Having to hire nothing but the best to achieve decent or viable output IMO moreso implies that the processes or systems are lacking than whether people are even capable of output of the desired feature set.

blueflow 4y ago
As an adult its your responsibility to produce sensible quality despite social factors. You can not expect society to hold your hand.
- jollofricepeas 4y ago
  I disagree. Culture is important at companies. Without it quality engineering can’t/won’t happen. People will rise to the bar set by their leadership unfortunately. Example: The engineering of the Boeing 737 Max Source: - https://www.netflix.com/title/81272421 https://www.netflix.com/title/81272421
  - blueflow 4y ago
    Page 4, Part 1.1 from https://www.vdi.de/fileadmin/pages/mein_vdi/redakteure/publikationen/VDI_Ethische_Grundsaetze.pdf https://www.vdi.de/fileadmin/pages/mein_vdi/redakteure/publi... : > Ingenieurinnen und Ingenieure sind alleine oder – bei arbeitsteiliger Zusammenarbeit – mitverantwortlich für die Folgen ihrer beruflichen Arbeit sowie für die sorgfältige Wahrnehmung ihrer spezifischen Pflichten, die ihnen aufgrund ihrer Kompetenz und ihres Sachverstandes zukommen Translated with Google translate: > Engineers are solely or – in the case of collaborative work – jointly responsible for the Consequences of their professional work as well as for the physical performance of their specific duties, which are due to them due to their competence and their expertise Carrying this responsibility is a (indirekt) requirement for being legally able to call yourself engineer here. Edit: a Netflix movie is a form of entertainment and not a valid source.
- frostwarrior 4y ago
  It's more about professionalism and stricter standards of engineering and less about being "good despite bad context". You can hire the best artisans for your pot making company and make some of the best pots. However, sooner or later you will encounter problems like disparate outcomes of quality (due to different people having different standards of style, crafting and discipline), unpredictability and reliability. An engineer role is to standardize processes and turn things like quality into a predictable outcome. It's not just about being good and not being bad.
  - iostream24 4y ago
    Unless the allegedly consolidated decided role of “software engineer level 123” is just a fiction recruiters believe in. What you are describing doesn’t match my lived experience in this industry
- steve76 4y ago
- devonkim 4y ago
  I understand this but there’s a huge gulf of nuance between expecting hand holding and keeping your head down while bad management expects great work output and results despite problems of their individual failures either.

blueflow 4y ago

As an adult its your responsibility to produce sensible quality despite social factors. You can not expect society to hold your hand.

jollofricepeas 4y ago
I disagree. Culture is important at companies. Without it quality engineering can’t/won’t happen. People will rise to the bar set by their leadership unfortunately. Example: The engineering of the Boeing 737 Max Source: - https://www.netflix.com/title/81272421 https://www.netflix.com/title/81272421
- blueflow 4y ago
  Page 4, Part 1.1 from https://www.vdi.de/fileadmin/pages/mein_vdi/redakteure/publikationen/VDI_Ethische_Grundsaetze.pdf https://www.vdi.de/fileadmin/pages/mein_vdi/redakteure/publi... : > Ingenieurinnen und Ingenieure sind alleine oder – bei arbeitsteiliger Zusammenarbeit – mitverantwortlich für die Folgen ihrer beruflichen Arbeit sowie für die sorgfältige Wahrnehmung ihrer spezifischen Pflichten, die ihnen aufgrund ihrer Kompetenz und ihres Sachverstandes zukommen Translated with Google translate: > Engineers are solely or – in the case of collaborative work – jointly responsible for the Consequences of their professional work as well as for the physical performance of their specific duties, which are due to them due to their competence and their expertise Carrying this responsibility is a (indirekt) requirement for being legally able to call yourself engineer here. Edit: a Netflix movie is a form of entertainment and not a valid source.
frostwarrior 4y ago
It's more about professionalism and stricter standards of engineering and less about being "good despite bad context". You can hire the best artisans for your pot making company and make some of the best pots. However, sooner or later you will encounter problems like disparate outcomes of quality (due to different people having different standards of style, crafting and discipline), unpredictability and reliability. An engineer role is to standardize processes and turn things like quality into a predictable outcome. It's not just about being good and not being bad.
- iostream24 4y ago
  Unless the allegedly consolidated decided role of “software engineer level 123” is just a fiction recruiters believe in. What you are describing doesn’t match my lived experience in this industry
steve76 4y ago
devonkim 4y ago
I understand this but there’s a huge gulf of nuance between expecting hand holding and keeping your head down while bad management expects great work output and results despite problems of their individual failures either.