5 ms·

It's worth forgiving student loans, even if people will be mad because they already paid theirs off. It's such a selfish mentality to think because you went thr

It's worth forgiving student loans, even if people will be mad because they already paid theirs off. It's such a selfish mentality to think because you went through something hard and missed the boat, everyone else has to as well. However, I don't think this will really solve anything. It's will empty our collective cup of debt, but the faucet is still on. Loans will still be made and college will still be stupidly expensive unless we make more structural changes to our education system. How many times will we "forgive" the debt? It doesn't really even make sense to do it until we have a plan in place to make sure we won't have to again.

crhulls 4y ago
I don't think many people have the mindset of being against student loans because "they've already paid off theirs." I'm sure some people feel that way, and it is an understandable emotional reaction, but you are giving the strawman version of the argument. The more measured position against student loan forgiveness is: -People in the trades who did not go to college should not be paying for people who did. College degree holders already have high earning power. -There is a moral hazard that comes from not holding people accountable to their own decisions. People will assume (perhaps logically) that there will always be a bail out. This same thing happened in the stock market for rich people via the "fed put." -We have inflation at generational highs with extremely low employment - this will exacerbate the issue. -Forgiveness that is decoupled from fixing the underlying system doesn't actually solve the problem. Will we do forgiveness every X years without making college more affordable? (you correctly made this point) -Forgiveness is a misnomer - in reality it is a tax we all have to pay and is much more akin to a transfer payment. -What values are we trying to teach our children about decision making and accountability? Victim mentality is becoming more common.
- shakes_mcjunkie 4y ago
  -How much are people in the trades "paying" for student loans? Taxes don't work like this. -Our society relentlessly holds people "accountable" for all kinds of things in all manner of unfair ways. Legally, economically, medically -- people are constantly held accountable. "Morals" will not change because student loans are forgiven. Also comparing rich people bailouts to student loan forgiveness is laughable. -I'm not sure what the point is here? Also unemployment rate is very very low in the latest jobs report. -Let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. We'll never solve any problems if every solution needs to fix the underlying system. -How much taxes do you pay for others' student loans? This is not how taxes work. I'd be interested in your sources here. -Is "victim" mentality becoming more common or are the injustices of our society becoming more obvious with better communication technologies? Again, our society relentlessly moralizes everything. Forgiving student loans isn't going to change anything but the borrowers economic participation and quality of life.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- thrashh 4y ago
  1. My taxes go to a lot of stuff I don’t care about but that is a cost of living in a society that I enjoy living in. If something improves society that leads to a reduction in the societal problems that do affect me, by all means. 2. Perhaps then don’t make it entirely free. It doesn’t have to be black and white. 3. We printed money for banks in 2008 and it didn’t result in inflation. As long as people have places to spend their money or the money doesn’t end up sitting in an account, inflation shouldn’t be a problem. Right now, the supply chain is still borked and people like me have been waiting for stuff on back-order for months, which means money that I already ear-marked to spend is instead just sitting in my bank account and collectively causing inflation. 4. This one I agree with. Either it’s free/cheap college education or nothing. Loan forgiveness is a lazy way to say that we want free/cheap education without committing to anything. 5. Don’t care about transfer payments. Many people are already born with insane talent or great circumstances and have life much easier so why do I suddenly care that some people have it harder or easier? 6. Victim mentality happens when someone loses hope and feels like they are in a deep hole. If your student loans are too large to pay off reasonably soon (which any normal young person with hopes and dreams can get themselves into), you talk to your friends who are in the same pickle and this mentality develops. Now I don’t know if making college free is necessarily the option or feasible but both sides have a point. Nothing that is contentious has one side that is simply right — it wouldn’t be a contentious issue.
SamReidHughes 4y ago
> It's such a selfish mentality What kind of man would want their money taken from them to provide a gift to others? There is a big difference between selfishness and self-respect.
- shakes_mcjunkie 4y ago
  How much money will be taken from an individual tax payer for student loan forgiveness?
  - SamReidHughes 4y ago
    It doesn't matter. How can you think so little of yourself? Corruption, and that's what this is, a money transfer to Democrats' constituency, should be opposed even if it's a small amount.
    - shakes_mcjunkie 4y ago
      The entire government runs off subsidizing various parts of society that it deems important. Is that all corruption?
    - Jcowell 4y ago
      Do only democrats go to college and have debt?
      - j_walter 4y ago
        No, but there is far greater share of democrats that are college graduates (especially the younger ones) and those in the trades are a greater share of republicans. Not only...but certainly more of them.
  - bushbaba 4y ago
    If loan forgiveness becomes a common trend it will be used as justification to raise taxes. Personally, as a tax-payer. The money I provide is not well spent and there's plenty of bloat. I'd prefer to not pay more in taxes and for the government to cost optimize its budget.

crhulls 4y ago

I don't think many people have the mindset of being against student loans because "they've already paid off theirs." I'm sure some people feel that way, and it is an understandable emotional reaction, but you are giving the strawman version of the argument. The more measured position against student loan forgiveness is: -People in the trades who did not go to college should not be paying for people who did. College degree holders already have high earning power. -There is a moral hazard that comes from not holding people accountable to their own decisions. People will assume (perhaps logically) that there will always be a bail out. This same thing happened in the stock market for rich people via the "fed put." -We have inflation at generational highs with extremely low employment - this will exacerbate the issue. -Forgiveness that is decoupled from fixing the underlying system doesn't actually solve the problem. Will we do forgiveness every X years without making college more affordable? (you correctly made this point) -Forgiveness is a misnomer - in reality it is a tax we all have to pay and is much more akin to a transfer payment. -What values are we trying to teach our children about decision making and accountability? Victim mentality is becoming more common.

shakes_mcjunkie 4y ago
-How much are people in the trades "paying" for student loans? Taxes don't work like this. -Our society relentlessly holds people "accountable" for all kinds of things in all manner of unfair ways. Legally, economically, medically -- people are constantly held accountable. "Morals" will not change because student loans are forgiven. Also comparing rich people bailouts to student loan forgiveness is laughable. -I'm not sure what the point is here? Also unemployment rate is very very low in the latest jobs report. -Let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. We'll never solve any problems if every solution needs to fix the underlying system. -How much taxes do you pay for others' student loans? This is not how taxes work. I'd be interested in your sources here. -Is "victim" mentality becoming more common or are the injustices of our society becoming more obvious with better communication technologies? Again, our society relentlessly moralizes everything. Forgiving student loans isn't going to change anything but the borrowers economic participation and quality of life.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
thrashh 4y ago
1. My taxes go to a lot of stuff I don’t care about but that is a cost of living in a society that I enjoy living in. If something improves society that leads to a reduction in the societal problems that do affect me, by all means. 2. Perhaps then don’t make it entirely free. It doesn’t have to be black and white. 3. We printed money for banks in 2008 and it didn’t result in inflation. As long as people have places to spend their money or the money doesn’t end up sitting in an account, inflation shouldn’t be a problem. Right now, the supply chain is still borked and people like me have been waiting for stuff on back-order for months, which means money that I already ear-marked to spend is instead just sitting in my bank account and collectively causing inflation. 4. This one I agree with. Either it’s free/cheap college education or nothing. Loan forgiveness is a lazy way to say that we want free/cheap education without committing to anything. 5. Don’t care about transfer payments. Many people are already born with insane talent or great circumstances and have life much easier so why do I suddenly care that some people have it harder or easier? 6. Victim mentality happens when someone loses hope and feels like they are in a deep hole. If your student loans are too large to pay off reasonably soon (which any normal young person with hopes and dreams can get themselves into), you talk to your friends who are in the same pickle and this mentality develops. Now I don’t know if making college free is necessarily the option or feasible but both sides have a point. Nothing that is contentious has one side that is simply right — it wouldn’t be a contentious issue.

SamReidHughes 4y ago

> It's such a selfish mentality What kind of man would want their money taken from them to provide a gift to others? There is a big difference between selfishness and self-respect.

shakes_mcjunkie 4y ago
How much money will be taken from an individual tax payer for student loan forgiveness?
- SamReidHughes 4y ago
  It doesn't matter. How can you think so little of yourself? Corruption, and that's what this is, a money transfer to Democrats' constituency, should be opposed even if it's a small amount.
  - shakes_mcjunkie 4y ago
    The entire government runs off subsidizing various parts of society that it deems important. Is that all corruption?
  - Jcowell 4y ago
    Do only democrats go to college and have debt?
    - j_walter 4y ago
      No, but there is far greater share of democrats that are college graduates (especially the younger ones) and those in the trades are a greater share of republicans. Not only...but certainly more of them.
- bushbaba 4y ago
  If loan forgiveness becomes a common trend it will be used as justification to raise taxes. Personally, as a tax-payer. The money I provide is not well spent and there's plenty of bloat. I'd prefer to not pay more in taxes and for the government to cost optimize its budget.