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Why would you want low-information voters to be forced to vote in a compulsory voting system? Australian "democracy" is hardly a shining star in the world, giv

by 0xy 4y ago

Why would you want low-information voters to be forced to vote in a compulsory voting system? Australian "democracy" is hardly a shining star in the world, given state politics is a corrupt mess with branch stacking (featuring cash in manilla envelopes exchanged in car parks, no really, this happened!) and outright corruption. Then you have both major parties being practically identical (both vehemently voted for anti-encryption and metadata retention bills). You also made the common misconception that the US is a democracy. It wasn't, never was, and was never founded as one. The US is a republic, and elections are based on state representation and not individual voters. This prevents coastal elites in California and New York from dictating policy for poor farmers in Idaho. I also find it hard to believe the AEC is not partisan, considering their mainstream bias (the three majors receive preferential treatment). Preference voting is also terrible, given it severely punishes minor parties, who are rapidly rising in popularity. 1/3rd of Australians don't vote for the corrupt major parties yet they are barely represented. As for "encouraging centrism", I'm not sure anyone should want that given Australia is a basketcase of mass surveillance, war crimes (indiscriminate slaying of civilians in Afghanistan) and violating UN Human Rights guidelines they are a signatory to (they prevented citizens from leaving the country). Such a shining star for democracy and centrism, blasting away Afghanistani civilians and covering it up. Sounds amazing!

phs318u 4y ago
Do you really think that most US voters are high-information voters? No. But they are high-motivation voters. Again, this hits at the fundamental difference - one voting system is about the overall stability of the society, in the other its about the primacy of the individual in (almost) all things. Let me ask - in the US, does the government have a duty to govern for/on-behalf-of non-voters? WIth respect to party branch stacking, you're conflating the internal selection of candidates within a party, to the external election among candidates for an electoral seat. Please refer to the context of this article that we're all commenting on. I stand by my characterisation of Australian electoral system as one of the least corrupt in terms of the way the elections are run (which is what we - or at least I - are talking about). As for your self-proclaimed "belief" that AEC is partisan ("the three majors receive preferential treatment"), please provide a citation for ANY kind of evidence that is true. While preferential voting is not the same as proportional representation, the recent federal election here shows that people are less wedded to their blue/red inherited voting "teams" than ever before, with the greatest ever election to parliament of independent candidates and Greens, and the Greens now holding the balance of power in the Senate. You may well look at Australia and see a "basketcase". I look at the US and see far worse than that. Is Australia perfect? Clearly not. I vote Green and I agree that most of what you've cited as issues, are indeed that. But my kids aren't more likely to die from gunshot wounds. A person won't die just because they can't afford private health insurance. As for "blasting away Afghanistani civilians" - there is a very public court case right now underway against the (highly decorated) soldier I assume you're referring to. Meanwhile, to the best of my knowledge, not a single individual at any level responsible for the "Collateral Murder" incident has been punished. I won't hold my breath.
- 0xy 4y ago
  How can you claim elections are free and fair if the parties that win every election are subject to massive corruption including cash bribes in car parks? By the way, this is NOT an isolated incident or even an isolated area. I imagine if Biden or Trump was stacking state electors or state nominations with shills by using cash-stuffed manila envelopes you would've mentioned that in your original post -- why do you not care about this corruption in your own country? The proliferation of cash payments in envelopes to rig selections seems to disqualify Australia from the title of "not corrupt" elections. Again, not isolated. As for the AEC, they have a long history of targeting people in rules that effectively prevent them voting [1]. Wow, so democratic! Not to mention the privacy breaches, or the audit that said they lied to the public repeatedly about cybersecurity. Wow, AEC elections are so secure! [2] [3] Let's look at a quote: "Insufficient attention was paid to ensuring the AEC could identify whether the system had been compromised," Mr Hehir said. Whoops. They didn't even have the capability to know whether the election was compromised, then they lied about it. >But my kids aren't more likely to die from gunshot wounds Gun homicides have been declining for 40 years in the US. Increased gun sales are correlated with decreased gun homicides. It seems like you're extrapolating data from media sources rather than looking at crime statistics? >A person won't die just because they can't afford private health insurance This is pretty much a lie. Medicaid ($672bn yearly budget) provides coverage to those on low or no incomes. Not to mention those "bill shock" images you've no doubt been manipulated by are highly misleading. People don't pay those figures. Never. Hospitals negotiate 90% or higher discounts for those who aren't insured. Go read personal finance subreddits for yourself to confirm. >Meanwhile, to the best of my knowledge, not a single individual at any level responsible for the "Collateral Murder" incident has been punished Australia is covering up the war crimes perpetrated by the military. The only reason it was ever public was because of leaks. The US military (as warmongering as it is) felt the Australian military had a bloodthirsty reputation. [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-19/nt-voters-racial-discrimination-human-rights-commission/100227762 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-19/nt-voters-racial-disc... [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-18/aec-sends-electoral-roll-data-to-the-wrong-people/7426400 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-18/aec-sends-electoral-r... [3] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-22/aec-misled-public-about-data-security-audit-shows/9349734 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-22/aec-misled-public-abo...

by 0xy 4y ago

phs318u 4y ago

Do you really think that most US voters are high-information voters? No. But they are high-motivation voters. Again, this hits at the fundamental difference - one voting system is about the overall stability of the society, in the other its about the primacy of the individual in (almost) all things. Let me ask - in the US, does the government have a duty to govern for/on-behalf-of non-voters? WIth respect to party branch stacking, you're conflating the internal selection of candidates within a party, to the external election among candidates for an electoral seat. Please refer to the context of this article that we're all commenting on. I stand by my characterisation of Australian electoral system as one of the least corrupt in terms of the way the elections are run (which is what we - or at least I - are talking about). As for your self-proclaimed "belief" that AEC is partisan ("the three majors receive preferential treatment"), please provide a citation for ANY kind of evidence that is true. While preferential voting is not the same as proportional representation, the recent federal election here shows that people are less wedded to their blue/red inherited voting "teams" than ever before, with the greatest ever election to parliament of independent candidates and Greens, and the Greens now holding the balance of power in the Senate. You may well look at Australia and see a "basketcase". I look at the US and see far worse than that. Is Australia perfect? Clearly not. I vote Green and I agree that most of what you've cited as issues, are indeed that. But my kids aren't more likely to die from gunshot wounds. A person won't die just because they can't afford private health insurance. As for "blasting away Afghanistani civilians" - there is a very public court case right now underway against the (highly decorated) soldier I assume you're referring to. Meanwhile, to the best of my knowledge, not a single individual at any level responsible for the "Collateral Murder" incident has been punished. I won't hold my breath.

0xy 4y ago
How can you claim elections are free and fair if the parties that win every election are subject to massive corruption including cash bribes in car parks? By the way, this is NOT an isolated incident or even an isolated area. I imagine if Biden or Trump was stacking state electors or state nominations with shills by using cash-stuffed manila envelopes you would've mentioned that in your original post -- why do you not care about this corruption in your own country? The proliferation of cash payments in envelopes to rig selections seems to disqualify Australia from the title of "not corrupt" elections. Again, not isolated. As for the AEC, they have a long history of targeting people in rules that effectively prevent them voting [1]. Wow, so democratic! Not to mention the privacy breaches, or the audit that said they lied to the public repeatedly about cybersecurity. Wow, AEC elections are so secure! [2] [3] Let's look at a quote: "Insufficient attention was paid to ensuring the AEC could identify whether the system had been compromised," Mr Hehir said. Whoops. They didn't even have the capability to know whether the election was compromised, then they lied about it. >But my kids aren't more likely to die from gunshot wounds Gun homicides have been declining for 40 years in the US. Increased gun sales are correlated with decreased gun homicides. It seems like you're extrapolating data from media sources rather than looking at crime statistics? >A person won't die just because they can't afford private health insurance This is pretty much a lie. Medicaid ($672bn yearly budget) provides coverage to those on low or no incomes. Not to mention those "bill shock" images you've no doubt been manipulated by are highly misleading. People don't pay those figures. Never. Hospitals negotiate 90% or higher discounts for those who aren't insured. Go read personal finance subreddits for yourself to confirm. >Meanwhile, to the best of my knowledge, not a single individual at any level responsible for the "Collateral Murder" incident has been punished Australia is covering up the war crimes perpetrated by the military. The only reason it was ever public was because of leaks. The US military (as warmongering as it is) felt the Australian military had a bloodthirsty reputation. [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-19/nt-voters-racial-discrimination-human-rights-commission/100227762 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-19/nt-voters-racial-disc... [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-18/aec-sends-electoral-roll-data-to-the-wrong-people/7426400 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-18/aec-sends-electoral-r... [3] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-22/aec-misled-public-about-data-security-audit-shows/9349734 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-22/aec-misled-public-abo...