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Funny timing — the Future of Coding podcast (disclosure: hosted by myself, sponsored by Replit) just did an episode about Engelbart's Augmenting Human Intellect

Funny timing — the Future of Coding podcast (disclosure: hosted by myself, sponsored by Replit) just did an episode about Engelbart's Augmenting Human Intellect, perhaps offering a bit of the "more in-depth examination" Amjad was interested in. https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/056 https://futureofcoding.org/episodes/056 That paper (from '62) forms quite the contrast with MoAD (from '68). While the latter is quite specific, showing a lot of "features" that people tend to point to when citing Engelbart's influence, the former is arguably much more visionary. Doug had quite a lot more in mind than just pointing devices and video calling.

mikewarot 4y ago
I almost blew my ears off when I started it. I couldn't find a volume control in the media player, and the little button on the right wasn't it. Please add a volume control to the media player.
- spiralganglion 4y ago
  Sorry about that! It's a player made by Omny, my podcast host. But I'm unhappy with them for other reasons too, so I'll be switching away soon — self-hosting, and using the native media player. So your volume slider wishes will be fulfilled. Thank you for the request.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    Suggestion: abandon the player, let your subscribers choose whatever player they like, such as their own browser's builtin player, and just post a link to the media file, like an mp3, and/or stream via a common protocol all browsers support, like rtsp. No middleman and far less fuss.
AlbertoGP 4y ago
I listened to it (thanks mikewarot for the warning about the volume), and at some point two of you discuss something I agree with that I haven’t seen noted before when talking about Doug Engelbart: > [... 1:17:32] Joe is writing down all of the things that you’re saying describing the system, and then he says that “it represents the clumsy phrasing and illogical progression of thought so typical of extemporaneous speech” [https://www.dougengelbart.org/pubs/augment-3906.html#3b5a https://www.dougengelbart.org/pubs/augment-3906.html#3b5a] which A: is what Jimmy and I are doing right now, B: is what Doug Engelbart’s writing reads like anyways. His writing reads like clumsy and illogical progressions of extemporaneous speech, except that it’s like, worked to within an inch of its life. It is so overwrought, and yet at the same time clumsy and illogical, so that... you know... grrrr! > [... 1:18:14] Doug is a bad writer, I don’t like Doug’s writing, I’ll say that, I have not enjoyed reading his writing. I enjoyed his fan fiction better than I enjoyed his technical manuals, it’s just not a pleasure to read. And it made me wonder, [...] did he feel the disconnect in quality between, like, Bush’s writing and his own writing? Did he feel like the quality of his writing needed to be formed into this very unappealing mold because of the context he was working in? > [... 1:20:42] I do kind of agree with you, his writing is very awkward, right? It is hard to kind of get at the ideas that are in here, and you know, maybe there is something to it where he is... this is clearly, some of this is an intentional stylistic choice, right? [...] he wanted to write in this way for some particular reason or other, I think.
rektide 4y ago
As one of my favorite books, I'm overdue for a re-read, but Waldrop's Dream Machines is a book about J.C.R. Licklider, but Engelbart definitely comes up again and again, and for sure, the Augmenting Human Intellect thread is highly present. At least we no longer reduce Engelbart to "the man who invented the mouse." But yeah, the not-exactly philosophical but big-idea-ed-ness, the frame-setting that folks had is such a valuable contribution. Engelbart had such a clear & sharp objective in mind, that he wrote about so early, & it's so compelling & humanistic a value. Few other examples of tech-workers across the decades seem to radiate with the clear moral & progressive clarity. Thank you for this call out. This idea, of whether computers are here to mechanize processes that people fit into, or whether computers are tools to augment & enhance our individual agency, is a huge question. Ursala Franklin has some good material on Technological Society. There's a couple different points of view she proposes, but I really enjoy the distinction she makes between Holistic technologies, where the capabilities of the user are expanded & opened, the user gains control, versus Prescriptive technologies, which relate more to macro-level control, to enforcing set-down processes[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_Franklin#Holistic_and_prescriptive_technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_Franklin#Holistic_and_p...

mikewarot 4y ago

I almost blew my ears off when I started it. I couldn't find a volume control in the media player, and the little button on the right wasn't it. Please add a volume control to the media player.

spiralganglion 4y ago
Sorry about that! It's a player made by Omny, my podcast host. But I'm unhappy with them for other reasons too, so I'll be switching away soon — self-hosting, and using the native media player. So your volume slider wishes will be fulfilled. Thank you for the request.
- Maursault 4y ago
  Suggestion: abandon the player, let your subscribers choose whatever player they like, such as their own browser's builtin player, and just post a link to the media file, like an mp3, and/or stream via a common protocol all browsers support, like rtsp. No middleman and far less fuss.

AlbertoGP 4y ago

I listened to it (thanks mikewarot for the warning about the volume), and at some point two of you discuss something I agree with that I haven’t seen noted before when talking about Doug Engelbart: > [... 1:17:32] Joe is writing down all of the things that you’re saying describing the system, and then he says that “it represents the clumsy phrasing and illogical progression of thought so typical of extemporaneous speech” [https://www.dougengelbart.org/pubs/augment-3906.html#3b5a https://www.dougengelbart.org/pubs/augment-3906.html#3b5a] which A: is what Jimmy and I are doing right now, B: is what Doug Engelbart’s writing reads like anyways. His writing reads like clumsy and illogical progressions of extemporaneous speech, except that it’s like, worked to within an inch of its life. It is so overwrought, and yet at the same time clumsy and illogical, so that... you know... grrrr! > [... 1:18:14] Doug is a bad writer, I don’t like Doug’s writing, I’ll say that, I have not enjoyed reading his writing. I enjoyed his fan fiction better than I enjoyed his technical manuals, it’s just not a pleasure to read. And it made me wonder, [...] did he feel the disconnect in quality between, like, Bush’s writing and his own writing? Did he feel like the quality of his writing needed to be formed into this very unappealing mold because of the context he was working in? > [... 1:20:42] I do kind of agree with you, his writing is very awkward, right? It is hard to kind of get at the ideas that are in here, and you know, maybe there is something to it where he is... this is clearly, some of this is an intentional stylistic choice, right? [...] he wanted to write in this way for some particular reason or other, I think.

rektide 4y ago

As one of my favorite books, I'm overdue for a re-read, but Waldrop's Dream Machines is a book about J.C.R. Licklider, but Engelbart definitely comes up again and again, and for sure, the Augmenting Human Intellect thread is highly present. At least we no longer reduce Engelbart to "the man who invented the mouse." But yeah, the not-exactly philosophical but big-idea-ed-ness, the frame-setting that folks had is such a valuable contribution. Engelbart had such a clear & sharp objective in mind, that he wrote about so early, & it's so compelling & humanistic a value. Few other examples of tech-workers across the decades seem to radiate with the clear moral & progressive clarity. Thank you for this call out. This idea, of whether computers are here to mechanize processes that people fit into, or whether computers are tools to augment & enhance our individual agency, is a huge question. Ursala Franklin has some good material on Technological Society. There's a couple different points of view she proposes, but I really enjoy the distinction she makes between Holistic technologies, where the capabilities of the user are expanded & opened, the user gains control, versus Prescriptive technologies, which relate more to macro-level control, to enforcing set-down processes[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_Franklin#Holistic_and_prescriptive_technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_Franklin#Holistic_and_p...