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> When that happens, though, Colombia will face a challenge from Spain and an indigenous group in Bolivia to determine who keeps the bounty. I understand the C
by belval 4y ago
> When that happens, though, Colombia will face a challenge from Spain and an indigenous group in Bolivia to determine who keeps the bounty.
I understand the Colombian and Bolivian claims, but Spain trying to get their blood gold 300 years after enslaving and murdering the natives is a bit rich.
- yesenadam 4y agoI know, right - "Spain insists that the bounty is theirs since it was aboard a Spanish ship" - I couldn't believe that! Like if you catch someone stealing stuff from your house and loading it into a truck, and they say "It's mine because it's it my truck". Not just saying it, but insisting on it in court. Shameful.
- frozenlettuce 4y agoIt's interesting because because former colonial powers argue that they acted by the moral standards of that time - and thus can't be judged today for that. And on the first opportunity they demonstrate that we didn't improved much as a species.
- adastra22 4y agoThat is absolutely standard legal practice though. Laws generally aren’t retroactive for good reason.
- FpUser 4y agoI understand non retroactive part. But claiming stolen gold now - I do not think it should ever be legal. On top of that it is simple disgusting. Really shows what their values are. Enlightened society my ass. They should be shown middle finger.
- seoaeu 4y agoI think the claim is that back then the law was “finders keepers” so it shouldn’t retroactively be called theft. Personally I don’t find that argument very compelling.
- adastra22 4y agoIt was never stolen though. Wars of conquest and slavery were perfectly legal under international law at the time. I agree it’s a dick move by Spain and really tarnishes their reputation today. But that’s not a legal argument.
- happy_path 4y agoAnother example: Is UK going to pay reparations to its old colonies? Don't think so.
- ajmurmann 4y agoWhose moral standards at the time? Seems like there was no agreement between indigenous South Americans' government and Spanish invaders at the time either.
- AlotOfReading 4y agoMore specifically, the Brussels convention that underlies modern marine salvage law carves out military ships as exempt from salvage rules. Spain insists on being tone deaf and maintains that their treasure ships were in fact military vessels and that the cargo is therefore still the property of Spain.
- happy_path 4y agoIs the US government going to return their lands to Native American peoples?
- galactus 4y agoTheir statement was something like “hey, thanks for finding our stuff. Please let us know when we can have it back.”. You gotta admire the chutzpah.
- pacetherace 4y agoLot of colonial claims become bogus if they don’t continue to keep that stance
- escapecharacter 4y agoYou know, it would certainly lighten my mood if we had a lil pirate gold war in 2022. I think it would be good for us all.
- siod 4y agoHonestly by that logic the British have a stronger claim, they sunk the ship. (Both claims would be/are farcical)
- elnatro 4y agoNot according to the law of the sea.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- pestatije 4y agoAs a Catalan... that's standard behaviour for Spain since more than 300 years. No surprises there. If the Colombians don't give the treasure willingly the Spanish will start calling them tight arses.
- nsbk 4y agoHow is "As a Catalan..." relevant in this context?
- AlotOfReading 4y agoThe costs of putting down catalonian rebellions were one of the major fiscal issues of the 17th century Spanish Empire and a substantial portion of the gold on this ship would have gone towards the war of Spanish Succession, which itself resulted in the Nueva Planta Decrees that contributed to modern Catalan nationalism. It's certainly not irrelevant here, plus you know... centuries of conflict with Spain.
- TexasBall 4y agoI've always thought the Spanish succession war involved Spain, France, Great Britain, Netherlands and Germany[1]. Today I learnt it was about a catalonian rebellion. [1]https://militarymaps.rct.uk/war-of-the-spanish-succession-1701-14#:~:text=The%20war%20was%20fought%20between,support%20of%20Philip%20of%20Anjou https://militarymaps.rct.uk/war-of-the-spanish-succession-17....
- happy_path 4y agoHowever, Catalonia was not a kingdom but a region inside the Kingdom of Aragon, like Valencia, for example.
- AlotOfReading 4y agoThe "Catalonian rebellion" I was mentioned was the Reaper's War, which was hugely expensive for Spain and the payments for which involved what would become a long series of currency devaluations. The war of Spanish Succession was between the countries you mentioned, as well as Catalonia as a part of both Spain and France. One important event in that war was the formation of an army of Habsburg loyalists by Catalonia to dispute the treaties of Utrecht. This in turn led to the Nueva Planta decrees and the end of Catalonia as an autonomous principality within Spain. If you have any more questions about imperial Spain (particularly the colonies) or you'd like me to go into more depth, feel free to ask. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reapers%27_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reapers%27_War