4 ms·

It is normal to advocate for your needs but asking for it to be included from day 1 is weird. The same way you don't start a saas app with localization from day

by polote 4y ago

It is normal to advocate for your needs but asking for it to be included from day 1 is weird. The same way you don't start a saas app with localization from day one. I'm not blind so for sure I won't really care about accessibility but honest question why not use an ide developed for blind people instead of using the same as non blind people?

__jem 4y ago
This comment is honestly shocking to me. It’s not “weird” for people with different needs to ask to be included in the software we build. Accessibility is a baseline for any product in 2022 and needs to be included from the start otherwise it inevitably won’t work when it’s strapped on later.
- ziml77 4y ago
  I also find it weird. I’m not disabled but I think designing for accessibility is important. It’s hard to tack on later and have it work well
LoveMortuus 4y ago
I'm guessing that by "included day 1" they meant that if you do it this way it's much easier then having the product designed and then re-engeneering it to support accessibility later.
girvo 4y ago
It is not weird at all, and claiming that asking for accessibility to be considered is weird is frankly rude. Approaches like yours are why people who are differently abled feel left out and like second class citizens a lot of the time.
hx2a 4y ago
Please learn more about the needs of blind people before writing something like this. Adding accessibility for screen readers is much more difficult to add later in the project lifecycle. Thinking about those design considerations early makes a big difference in how accessible it will later. If developers don't think about these things early, most likely the product will never be fully accessible, ever. Blind people have seen this played out before with other software products and know where this path leads. (I'm not blind but have worked with blind developers. I'm not an expert in accessibility but I know enough to know how important it is to listen to accessibility needs)
uxcolumbo 4y ago
Wow… really? Accessibility is not just for blind users. It’s also for users with poor eyesight, colour blind folks or folks with motor impairment. It can happen to any of us and then you’d be glad that developers are taking accessibility standards seriously.
SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
Please consider that implementing accessibility during the design phase is infinitely easier than post implementation. Additionally, accessibility benefits everyone and we should always be advocating for it regardless. Imagine if you can code screenless. Headaches in response to light? Not a problem. Avoiding screens at night to wind down for sleep? Solved. Eyesight deteriorating (a totally normal thing that comes with age)? No new tech or ecosystem to need to adapt to, everything is already there.
dark-star 4y ago
Actually it's pretty good development practice to start an SaaS app with localization from day one. Why wouldn't you? The world doesn't revolve around English speakers (there are more non-English speakers than there are English speakers, at least what their first language is concerned), the same as it doesn't revolve around people with 100% vision. You start an editor with extensibility from day one, as well as theming from day one, as well as multi-platform from day one, etc. Why should it be different for Localization or Accessibility?
skinnymuch 4y ago
People can and do care about accessibility while not being blind. Being considerate should be a characteristic we all have.
Gentil 4y ago
OK you want motive. If you do accessibility with priority, you will get a whole new set of users who are always overlooked. A less competitive way to get easy money or user base depending on your product's model. ;) I recently had a scare with my eyes. Freaked me out. I started looking at my developer tools completely differently. You are not out of the woods buddy. Anything can happen tomorrow. :)
lenkite 4y ago
I have learnt from VERY painful experience that you cannot "bolt on" accessibility later (not without very painful refactoring and massive tech debt). It needs to be a core feature considered in the base design and a task added for every feature added on top.
ClawsOnPaws 4y ago
> The same way you don't start a saas app with localization from day one. Believe it or not, my native language isn't English, so this doesn't make sense to me. > I'm not blind so for sure I won't really care about accessibility You should. You're not blind yet. You're not deaf yet. You don't have motor control problems yet. It does not take much to get there. One small accident and your life is changed forever. It's terrifying. > why not use an ide developed for blind people instead of using the same as non blind people? Because not only do those not exist, but that seems just a bit silly to me. Most operating systems provide pretty good means to make apps accessible. They usually have API's that, if implemented, will make your app work with whatever assistive tech you may use on that platform. Most apps work on Mac, most apps work on Windows. Linux is sadly another story, but even there we can at least edit text. What about tutorials? Courses? If we can't use the same software, should we also not be able to do any of them? Should we be locked out of great innovation because we need special software that nobody wants to update? Or worse, locked to one specific platform? I believe I've said this before, but as sad as it is, every time I hear "Custom UI" I immediately think "Oh great, this won't work". In fact, I'm much more likely to give something a go if it's developed using web technologies. While not perfect, at least I know that there's a chance that it might work. It shouldn't be like that.
HelloNurse 4y ago
Wouldn't you start a car business with seatbelts and airbags from day one?
- scombridae 4y ago
  I would. I'd also refuse selling to blind persons.

by polote 4y ago

__jem 4y ago

This comment is honestly shocking to me. It’s not “weird” for people with different needs to ask to be included in the software we build. Accessibility is a baseline for any product in 2022 and needs to be included from the start otherwise it inevitably won’t work when it’s strapped on later.

ziml77 4y ago
I also find it weird. I’m not disabled but I think designing for accessibility is important. It’s hard to tack on later and have it work well

LoveMortuus 4y ago

I'm guessing that by "included day 1" they meant that if you do it this way it's much easier then having the product designed and then re-engeneering it to support accessibility later.

girvo 4y ago

It is not weird at all, and claiming that asking for accessibility to be considered is weird is frankly rude. Approaches like yours are why people who are differently abled feel left out and like second class citizens a lot of the time.

hx2a 4y ago

Please learn more about the needs of blind people before writing something like this. Adding accessibility for screen readers is much more difficult to add later in the project lifecycle. Thinking about those design considerations early makes a big difference in how accessible it will later. If developers don't think about these things early, most likely the product will never be fully accessible, ever. Blind people have seen this played out before with other software products and know where this path leads. (I'm not blind but have worked with blind developers. I'm not an expert in accessibility but I know enough to know how important it is to listen to accessibility needs)

uxcolumbo 4y ago

Wow… really? Accessibility is not just for blind users. It’s also for users with poor eyesight, colour blind folks or folks with motor impairment. It can happen to any of us and then you’d be glad that developers are taking accessibility standards seriously.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago

Please consider that implementing accessibility during the design phase is infinitely easier than post implementation. Additionally, accessibility benefits everyone and we should always be advocating for it regardless. Imagine if you can code screenless. Headaches in response to light? Not a problem. Avoiding screens at night to wind down for sleep? Solved. Eyesight deteriorating (a totally normal thing that comes with age)? No new tech or ecosystem to need to adapt to, everything is already there.

dark-star 4y ago

Actually it's pretty good development practice to start an SaaS app with localization from day one. Why wouldn't you? The world doesn't revolve around English speakers (there are more non-English speakers than there are English speakers, at least what their first language is concerned), the same as it doesn't revolve around people with 100% vision. You start an editor with extensibility from day one, as well as theming from day one, as well as multi-platform from day one, etc. Why should it be different for Localization or Accessibility?

skinnymuch 4y ago

People can and do care about accessibility while not being blind. Being considerate should be a characteristic we all have.

Gentil 4y ago

OK you want motive. If you do accessibility with priority, you will get a whole new set of users who are always overlooked. A less competitive way to get easy money or user base depending on your product's model. ;) I recently had a scare with my eyes. Freaked me out. I started looking at my developer tools completely differently. You are not out of the woods buddy. Anything can happen tomorrow. :)

lenkite 4y ago

I have learnt from VERY painful experience that you cannot "bolt on" accessibility later (not without very painful refactoring and massive tech debt). It needs to be a core feature considered in the base design and a task added for every feature added on top.

ClawsOnPaws 4y ago

> The same way you don't start a saas app with localization from day one. Believe it or not, my native language isn't English, so this doesn't make sense to me. > I'm not blind so for sure I won't really care about accessibility You should. You're not blind yet. You're not deaf yet. You don't have motor control problems yet. It does not take much to get there. One small accident and your life is changed forever. It's terrifying. > why not use an ide developed for blind people instead of using the same as non blind people? Because not only do those not exist, but that seems just a bit silly to me. Most operating systems provide pretty good means to make apps accessible. They usually have API's that, if implemented, will make your app work with whatever assistive tech you may use on that platform. Most apps work on Mac, most apps work on Windows. Linux is sadly another story, but even there we can at least edit text. What about tutorials? Courses? If we can't use the same software, should we also not be able to do any of them? Should we be locked out of great innovation because we need special software that nobody wants to update? Or worse, locked to one specific platform? I believe I've said this before, but as sad as it is, every time I hear "Custom UI" I immediately think "Oh great, this won't work". In fact, I'm much more likely to give something a go if it's developed using web technologies. While not perfect, at least I know that there's a chance that it might work. It shouldn't be like that.

HelloNurse 4y ago

Wouldn't you start a car business with seatbelts and airbags from day one?

scombridae 4y ago
I would. I'd also refuse selling to blind persons.