5 ms·

Apple blesses a converged Mac/iOS approach, which in practice means you basically throw away a lot of what made the Mac excellent. Not that Apple is even follo

by _jal 4y ago

Apple blesses a converged Mac/iOS approach, which in practice means you basically throw away a lot of what made the Mac excellent. Not that Apple is even following their own guidelines... https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/06/08/system-settings/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/06/08/system-settings/ The incoherent design, weirdly bipolar automation efforts, letting the command line rot, and a new-feature focus on lock-in are making the platform increasingly something I just don't care about anymore. Not to mention every time I get another Buy Apple Music! nudge or deal with their bratty "not now" dismissal of the fucking credit card offer makes me actively dislike Apple a bit more. I'm clearly not the customer Apple wants, and all good things come to an end. It just saddens me a bit - I've been using Macs for over 30 years now. Watching them become more annoying and arrogant than IBM sucks.

jjtheblunt 4y ago
> letting the command line rot how so?
seltzered_ 4y ago
Oddly, the settings panel in Ventura looks closer to what Gnome Settings looks like. Just without the "Buy Apple Music! nudge" or "credit card offer" elements.
- Macha 4y ago
  The last redesign of Apple Mail made it look a lot more like Gnome too
- threeseed 4y ago
  It also looks like the original Mac Control Panel from 1987: https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/System_4.1?file=System_4.1 https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/System_4.1?file=System_4.1
- musicale 4y ago
  Advertising in Settings is pure evil and needs to go away. Same for pushing ads through Notifications. Apple's road to hell is paved with OS-embedded advertising and user manipulation in the name of service and subscription revenue.
gubby 4y ago
And the atrocious disregard for performance over the last few years. My 2014 OSX 10.14 home Mac Mini is so much faster and more responsive than my 2021 OSX 12.4 work Mac mini (with no notable difference in features) it is difficult to conclude anything other than malice.
- cassandratt 4y ago
  My M1 Mac blows away my 3 year old desktop outside or raw graphics output due to the desktop having a 1080. It's such a massive power leap, it's difficult for me to believe that you bought a M1 Mac. I suspect you have hardware, or PEBKAK issues.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Raw performance as measured in benchmarks, sure. But the newer OSes do feel more bloated and indeed are sometimes slower. My 12-inch Macbook (low-powered dual-core i5) on Mojave feels much faster at opening built-in applications and simple tasks than my M1 running Monterey, and yet I can't think of any Monterey feature that I actually use over what Mojave already had - my workflow is exactly the same but now I seem to have to withstand a performance tax.
    - cassandratt 4y ago
      This isn't my experience at all. I'm feeling fortunate that we don't use the same stack. ;)
    - dannyw 4y ago
      Latest versions of Mac OS connect to the Internet and gets apples permission before opening an app. If you are on a high latency network, eg weak wifi signals, you'll be waiting 200-300ms. Those on super fast internet don't notice, and think it's a problem with you, but no, it's Apple.
      - cassandratt 4y ago
        Is that only for the App Store? I'm not seeing that traffic. I live in a rural area, city under 40k. We don't have amazing internet.
daniel_iversen 4y ago
Are we moving towards a tablet-laptop hybrid Apple device in the next few years I wonder? (similar to MS Surface).. I know there's the issue of cannibalisation but I think such a device could be awesome (but hard to do right)
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  As long as it comes with 16” screen and can run kubernetes, I’m okay with that.
- bombcar 4y ago
  It’s been obviously on the radar for years but it’s moving very slowly - the macbook is now arguably a iPad with a keyboard now so the main thing left is the software unification.
- RajT88 4y ago
  I will not be happy until my Surface Book 2 is a pile of slag. But it might be the best effort yet of unifying mobile device and desktop experiences. The industry just needs to keep trying is all. Eventually someone is going to get it right. It's anyone's game, and all the major players thus far have fucked it up multiple times.
- threeseed 4y ago
  This comes up every year and people still don't listen to the original justification for why Apple used iOS instead of OSX given they had a choice. OSX is designed for a keyboard and mouse. iOS is designed for a finger. They have wildly different semantics e.g. precision, gestures that you can't abstract without ending up with a horribly compromised experience e.g. Windows tablet mode. And that's just not in Apple's DNA.
  - imiric 4y ago
    > OSX is designed for a keyboard and mouse. iOS is designed for a finger. That line has been becoming blurrier for years now. iPadOS supports keyboard and mouse inputs, and the UI is moving closer to replicating a desktop experience on every release. macOS has supported touch gestures for a long time, and the UI is moving closer to resembling a mobile experience. It's not hard to imagine full convergence of both OSs and the devices that run them. As usual, Apple can claim to be the innovator in this change, even though competitors have been doing it, admittedly worse, much earlier.
ggm 4y ago
Yea, the memetics of "apple get HCI" is long, long dead. Apple does whatever the hell it wants, and loyalists defend it. Your case of "re-validate to spend" is the classic example of gui gone wrong. The box has validated me time out of mind, and even to get to the door of the store I had to validate but no: it wants to ask again. And again. And again. Oh, and microsoft.app again. and again. Oh, and all those other things, except wierdly ssh in the keychain is just.. fine!
- jbverschoor 4y ago
  There are soooo many UI inconsistencies recently. It seems that makes it’s being developed by iOS developers who have no clue about keyboard shortcuts, common features, etc. It’s getting worse and worse with each component that’s being replaced.
paganel 4y ago
> The incoherent design, weirdly bipolar automation efforts, letting the command line rot Which is a real shame because their hardware had started to be excellent again. What's the point of having a cool machine like a M1 Macbook Air if, in the future, you'll feel as an alien on it? (I mean, from the pov of a programmer)

by _jal 4y ago

jjtheblunt 4y ago

> letting the command line rot how so?

seltzered_ 4y ago

Oddly, the settings panel in Ventura looks closer to what Gnome Settings looks like. Just without the "Buy Apple Music! nudge" or "credit card offer" elements.

Macha 4y ago
The last redesign of Apple Mail made it look a lot more like Gnome too
threeseed 4y ago
It also looks like the original Mac Control Panel from 1987: https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/System_4.1?file=System_4.1 https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/System_4.1?file=System_4.1
musicale 4y ago
Advertising in Settings is pure evil and needs to go away. Same for pushing ads through Notifications. Apple's road to hell is paved with OS-embedded advertising and user manipulation in the name of service and subscription revenue.

gubby 4y ago

And the atrocious disregard for performance over the last few years. My 2014 OSX 10.14 home Mac Mini is so much faster and more responsive than my 2021 OSX 12.4 work Mac mini (with no notable difference in features) it is difficult to conclude anything other than malice.

cassandratt 4y ago
My M1 Mac blows away my 3 year old desktop outside or raw graphics output due to the desktop having a 1080. It's such a massive power leap, it's difficult for me to believe that you bought a M1 Mac. I suspect you have hardware, or PEBKAK issues.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Raw performance as measured in benchmarks, sure. But the newer OSes do feel more bloated and indeed are sometimes slower. My 12-inch Macbook (low-powered dual-core i5) on Mojave feels much faster at opening built-in applications and simple tasks than my M1 running Monterey, and yet I can't think of any Monterey feature that I actually use over what Mojave already had - my workflow is exactly the same but now I seem to have to withstand a performance tax.
  - cassandratt 4y ago
    This isn't my experience at all. I'm feeling fortunate that we don't use the same stack. ;)
  - dannyw 4y ago
    Latest versions of Mac OS connect to the Internet and gets apples permission before opening an app. If you are on a high latency network, eg weak wifi signals, you'll be waiting 200-300ms. Those on super fast internet don't notice, and think it's a problem with you, but no, it's Apple.
    - cassandratt 4y ago
      Is that only for the App Store? I'm not seeing that traffic. I live in a rural area, city under 40k. We don't have amazing internet.

daniel_iversen 4y ago

Are we moving towards a tablet-laptop hybrid Apple device in the next few years I wonder? (similar to MS Surface).. I know there's the issue of cannibalisation but I think such a device could be awesome (but hard to do right)

rad_gruchalski 4y ago
As long as it comes with 16” screen and can run kubernetes, I’m okay with that.
bombcar 4y ago
It’s been obviously on the radar for years but it’s moving very slowly - the macbook is now arguably a iPad with a keyboard now so the main thing left is the software unification.
RajT88 4y ago
I will not be happy until my Surface Book 2 is a pile of slag. But it might be the best effort yet of unifying mobile device and desktop experiences. The industry just needs to keep trying is all. Eventually someone is going to get it right. It's anyone's game, and all the major players thus far have fucked it up multiple times.
threeseed 4y ago
This comes up every year and people still don't listen to the original justification for why Apple used iOS instead of OSX given they had a choice. OSX is designed for a keyboard and mouse. iOS is designed for a finger. They have wildly different semantics e.g. precision, gestures that you can't abstract without ending up with a horribly compromised experience e.g. Windows tablet mode. And that's just not in Apple's DNA.
- imiric 4y ago
  > OSX is designed for a keyboard and mouse. iOS is designed for a finger. That line has been becoming blurrier for years now. iPadOS supports keyboard and mouse inputs, and the UI is moving closer to replicating a desktop experience on every release. macOS has supported touch gestures for a long time, and the UI is moving closer to resembling a mobile experience. It's not hard to imagine full convergence of both OSs and the devices that run them. As usual, Apple can claim to be the innovator in this change, even though competitors have been doing it, admittedly worse, much earlier.

ggm 4y ago

Yea, the memetics of "apple get HCI" is long, long dead. Apple does whatever the hell it wants, and loyalists defend it. Your case of "re-validate to spend" is the classic example of gui gone wrong. The box has validated me time out of mind, and even to get to the door of the store I had to validate but no: it wants to ask again. And again. And again. Oh, and microsoft.app again. and again. Oh, and all those other things, except wierdly ssh in the keychain is just.. fine!

jbverschoor 4y ago
There are soooo many UI inconsistencies recently. It seems that makes it’s being developed by iOS developers who have no clue about keyboard shortcuts, common features, etc. It’s getting worse and worse with each component that’s being replaced.

paganel 4y ago

> The incoherent design, weirdly bipolar automation efforts, letting the command line rot Which is a real shame because their hardware had started to be excellent again. What's the point of having a cool machine like a M1 Macbook Air if, in the future, you'll feel as an alien on it? (I mean, from the pov of a programmer)