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Faced with scooter seizures, Bird pays property tax bill months late
- xn 4y agoFor those of us not from Texas, this article informs us that Travis County, which covers Austin, charges ~2.5% annual property tax on personal property owned by businesses. Bird owns personal property (scooters) worth about $6M in Travis County.
- bagels 4y agoThat's wild. They want to punish businesses that make physical things?
- arthurcolle 4y agoyeah that seems insane
- ahahahahah 4y agowell, it's not true, as noted in other comments here. i, too, can make up hypothetical scenarios that seem insane.
- SllX 4y agoPersonal property taxes/business property taxes are fairly common. If you ever want to pull your hair out, look at how BPOL (a different type of tax) is charged in Virginia, and more than that, which debt it is servicing.
- rahimnathwani 4y agoThings that a business makes in order to sell are not 'business property', and not (in most places) subject to business property taxes. But things a business uses to run its own business (e.g. laptops) are.
- wfhordie 4y agoBird doesn’t make the scooters, they just allow them to sit on the sidewalk clogging the pedestrian space and making life miserable for wheelchair users.
- rahimnathwani 4y agoFor reference, the equivalent tax rate in SF is 1.1801%
- csours 4y agoNo state taxes in Texas, so local jurisdictions that want to provide services have higher fees and taxes. (oversimplified)
- rahimnathwani 4y agoYup. I wasn't clear: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31675797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31675797
- dahfizz 4y agoCalifornia also has a state income tax up to 12% (!!) and a sales tax of 7%. Texas has no state income tax and a sales tax of 6%.
- rahimnathwani 4y agoYep, sorry, my comment didn't express what I was thinking. My point was not that the rate here in SF is lower, but that SF also taxes the same thing. This was surprising to me, as I'm from the UK, where: - businesses don't pay ongoing taxes just for having stuff, and - businesses claim back VAT on things they buy for business use
- Justin_K 4y agoThis is a pretty standard government shakedown, done nationwide. Small businesses get hit with assessments annually on "property" values. Businesses with expensive machinery get hit really hard. If the assessor is not permitted inside a location, the assessor will assign an estimated value of property (which is usually higher than actual). Then, the business must go through an audit to show what property / equipment exists at their locations. One time, L.A. county looked to go as far as taxing taxing satellites orbiting in space, because the owners were based in the county. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1006-los-angeles-plans-to-tax-property-in-space/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1006-los-angeles-plan... I don't believe this passed though. Businesses get hit with endless fees and taxes from the gov :(
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago> Businesses get hit with endless fees and taxes from the gov :( So do people. Show me businesses being taxed > 40% of revenue.
- Justin_K 4y agoI don't know where you came up with that number or what kind of point you're trying to make, so I don't have any examples for you. I'm merely referring to the myriad of taxes and fees you have to stay on top of as a business.
- edmundsauto 4y agoIndividuals' income taxes.
- Justin_K 4y agoI guess it doesn't make sense to me to compare individual taxes vs corporate. They are completely different structures and rates.
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- tomcam 4y agoAh, thank you very much
- olliej 4y agoSounds like Bird was trying to Disrupt property taxes. (Seriously why do companies like this not just pay their bills)
- vorpalhex 4y ago"Move fast and don't pay taxes" or something. I think that's how the startup mantra goes. Maybe it was "Break laws and avoid jail".. no hm...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- thawaya3113 4y agoAlmost all of these companies have a single business model. Regulation arbitrage. They break laws and regulations and then count on either having those changed in hindsight or having a valuation as a result of breaking those laws and regulations that is much greater than the fine they will negotiate down later anyways. That’s the Uber model. Along with passing on unwitting costs to their employees, and not paying them enough because they call them gig workers.
- rodgerd 4y agoBecause it's worked well for Amazon (ignore sales taxes), Uber (ignore... everything), AirBNB (ditto), and a long list of other "existing thing, but on a computer" businesses.
- londons_explore 4y ago> Travis County's tax office has collected about 99% of 2021 property taxes I'm impressed that a government agency publishes tax collection rates. I'm also impressed that they are so high - I was imagining that they'd only manage to collect ~80% after fraud, bankruptcies, missing/wrong property data, people uncontactable/missing/dead, etc.
- Scene_Cast2 4y agoI also wonder if the number is 99% of dollars or 99% of entities.
- bombcar 4y agoI suspect it's 99% of dollars because property tax on houses is really easy to track down, but some other property taxes would be more fluid (especially if "off the books" in some matter).
- brianwawok 4y agoAs long as home values are rising, it's real easy. Pay up, or forclose and sell.
- toddm 4y agoTravis County - and all counties in Texas - makes their property tax rates, appraisals, and other germane information public by default. For Travis County, the information is at traviscad.org ("cad" = "County Appraisal District"); for Williamson County, wcad.org; and so on with variations on county name. As to the 99% rate: most people are paying a combined escrowed property tax + mortgage combo, so I'm not surprised at such a high number - no tax collected means you've got bigger problems.
- teeeg 4y agoCan we start charging car owners 2.5% when they leave their personal property on public streets
- postalrat 4y agoSounds like a deal. I'm pretty sure I'm paying a lot more than that every year.
- hackernewds 4y agoAnd if you leave it longer, someone might hijack it and hold it hostage for towing fees. Why shouldn't commercial scooters be subject to the same?
- arthurcolle 4y agobecause electric scooters have a better carbon footprint compared to ICE vehicles and most cities have failed to implement reasonable public transportation therefore solutions like the scooters should be encouraged, not discouraged.
- tomcam 4y agoWhat’s your thought about the random distribution of scooters in sidewalks that visually impaired or wheelchair-bound people are trying to navigate?
- rad_gruchalski 4y agoOr the one that knocked me out right onto the street, in front of oncoming traffic and caused six stitches on my face?
- tomcam 4y agoDon’t get me started on that! When I grew up bikes had to observe traffic rules and had to stay off the sidewalk. I would prefer that practice be restored, and for scooters to follow those rules too.
- loeg 4y agoI wonder who evaluates how much those scooters are "worth." Like, where does the $6 million figure come from? As the tax office points out, how would you even sell $149k in rental scooters? Who is the market for seized Bird scooters?
- s0rce 4y agoIf they are relatively cheap and chargers are available I'm sure there is a market, people use privately owned electric scooters for transport.
- reaperducer 4y agoWho is the market for seized Bird scooters? In my neighborhood, every night at 7pm a few people set up tables on corners and in parking lots with hand-written cardboard signs "renting" out dozens of stolen, repainted scooters from these companies. The rate is $20/hour. Cash and Venmo only. Considering that the scooters are stolen to begin with, I don't think they care if they get returned or not, as their investment is pretty much $10 for a magic marker and a bucket of house paint.
- dopidopHN 4y agoWhat prevent there users to never return?
- reaperducer 4y agoNothing at all. That's why I wrote, "I don't think they care if they get returned or not, as their investment is pretty much $10 for a magic marker and a bucket of house paint."
- sudosysgen 4y agoThe market absolutely exists. They'd sell out within a week.
- tomcam 4y agoWhen I first started started reading HN well over a decade ago I knew to expect some pretty far-reaching topics. I have never been disappointed in that regard. However, I am humble enough to admit I never expected to see the phrase “scooter seizures” in an HN headline.
- executive 4y agoDid not see a single upright scooter in Austin this weekend. Littered all over the sidewalk. Must suck for the blind.