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> Todd Howard was the mind behind TES and Fallout 3/4. If your example of a great game is Fallout 4, then you've already lost the argument. It pales in compar

> Todd Howard was the mind behind TES and Fallout 3/4. If your example of a great game is Fallout 4, then you've already lost the argument. It pales in comparison to Fallout NV, Fallout 2 and even 3 in many regards. It's an extremely dumbed-down RPG experience, plagued by a lot of the same issues that are present in 76, including lack of passion and generic, tropey NPCs and environments. I think it would be more fair to say that most studios and game designers have their masterpieces, and then most of their other work is mediocre, simply because it trends towards the mean. Some great studios and designers can replicate their initial success once or twice more, but those are extremely rare.

uejfiweun 4y ago
Haha, that's fair. I certainly didn't like it the first time I played it. However, I recently tried again on survival mode after a friend's recommendation, and it feels totally different. No fast travel and saving only at beds changes the game completely. Suddenly vertibirds are useful, settlements are mandatory, and the world feels absolutely gigantic rather than a sandbox separated by loading screens. Highly recommend checking it out (although it still won't scratch your RPG itch).
JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
I loved Fallout 4, I'm sorry. Every second. I think a lot of people see the older games through nostalgia lenses when their lives were better/minds were younger/they were first experiencing an engrossing RPG. I played NV after 4 and NV was good too. Fallout 3 I keep giving up on and I'm not a quitter. It just doesn't draw me in like the other ones. It seems crude and simple comparatively, due to its age I guess.
- kaibee 4y ago
  Try Fallout 2.
- ericd 4y ago
  It's not just nostalgia, go play Fallout 2, GoG has a copy that should work. It holds up extremely well, because it's just a much better game than the Bethesda versions. The writing, the humor, the world building, it feels a lot more alive and real than the much more technically advanced iterations. Fallout 1 is less polished, but also great. Fallout 3+ always felt like a reskinned Elder Scrolls to me.
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    I did exactly that. Multiple times, including before Fallout 3 came out, after, and also pretty recently. IMHO, Fallout 2 sucks in comparison with anything F3+. Worldbuilding might be there, but the gameplay simply isn't. There's nothing wrong with being "a reskinned Elder Scrolls". Elder Scrolls is a great game (series). It is up there in the hall of masterpieces along with GTA and CS. If you don't believe my word, look at Steam stats: https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ Like many here I also believed F3 and NV had better storytelling. But many hours of playing later, I see that I actually prefer F4.
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      I think most of F and ES games are pretty boring, and the chart is about as compelling as cable ratings the Big Bang theory is a great show. It has mass appeal. It’s a very successful game. But they seem dull to me. The newer ones at least.
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        The chart is more compelling than your (or mine) personal opinion. Especially, when it is not substantiated.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- antisthenes 4y ago
  > I think a lot of people see the older games through nostalgia lenses when their lives were better/minds were younger/they were first experiencing an engrossing RPG. Yes, they do. But it is absolutely not the case here, sorry. F4 is just a worse game. It's not the worst game in the series or the genre, but it is utterly mediocre and not at all an example of a resounding success in Bethesda's history as a game company. Metacritic's 5.6/10 User score agrees with me. Doesn't mean you have to stop liking the game. There are plenty of bad games we all play as guilty pleasures. Also, just FYI, I think Fallout 1, the first game in the series is a pretty awful game. It's extremely short, the side quests are all boring fetch/kill quests, the open world is mostly dead. F2 was a huge improvement upon it.
  - D13Fd 4y ago
    That’s funny. I played them both at release. I thought Fallout 1 was incredible. I remember getting the trailer literally on VHS tape and being so hyped for it, and it totally lived up to it. It was unlike anything else at the time. Fallout 2 felt kind of watered down by comparison. The whole idea to move the series back by 80 or so years was terrible. The enclave was a terrible idea. The first Fallout made sense 80 years after the war. Everything looks basically the same. People still live in bombed out buildings. Nothing makes sense. The second and later Fallouts were all set way too late.
- poisonarena 4y ago
  I was a fan of all of them but 4 just felt really dumbed down as far as the story and rpg elements.. I grew up on 1-3 and didn't play NV until last year when I was 36, and I really loved it. It seems to really focus on the crafting and base building and for me that part was not so fun, even though I like the idea
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- robonerd 4y ago
  I first played Morrowind two or three years ago, a few years after I first played Fallout 4. No nostalgia glasses for me, I had negative interest in games like Morrowind when Morrowind was new. But playing Morrowind made me realize just how crap Fallout 4 is as an RPG. Fallout 4 has almost no choices to make and all the characters worship you as a messiah five minutes after meeting you. Morrowind is very rough around the edges, the roll-based combat system was a very hard swallow. But despite the rough/exploitable mechanics and the bad graphics, Morrowind still manages to be a much more immersive world because the people in it actually make sense. They have their own agendas and biases and they don't care about you until you give them a reason to care. In Morrowind you join a faction and are given orders by some regional flunky, or worse, that regional flunky tells you to buzz off and do shitty odd jobs for another apprentice in the faction. In Fallout 4 you approach a faction and immediately meet the faction leader who tells you that you're Howard's own gift to humanity.
panzagl 4y ago
I think FO76 is better than 4- nearly all of the RPG systems (dialogue, perks, crafting) have been improved, the world design is much more interesting, and the map has a ton of hidden corners to poke around in.
mr_toad 4y ago
> It's an extremely dumbed-down RPG experience The main story was weak, and the side content varies, but the game is sprawling and full of ‘hidden’ gems. In what other game could you eavesdrop on raiders discussing Henry David Thoreau in their lair at a former gift shop at Walden Pond? A gift shop at Walden Pond is itself ironically and darkly humorous.

uejfiweun 4y ago

Haha, that's fair. I certainly didn't like it the first time I played it. However, I recently tried again on survival mode after a friend's recommendation, and it feels totally different. No fast travel and saving only at beds changes the game completely. Suddenly vertibirds are useful, settlements are mandatory, and the world feels absolutely gigantic rather than a sandbox separated by loading screens. Highly recommend checking it out (although it still won't scratch your RPG itch).

JohnJamesRambo 4y ago

I loved Fallout 4, I'm sorry. Every second. I think a lot of people see the older games through nostalgia lenses when their lives were better/minds were younger/they were first experiencing an engrossing RPG. I played NV after 4 and NV was good too. Fallout 3 I keep giving up on and I'm not a quitter. It just doesn't draw me in like the other ones. It seems crude and simple comparatively, due to its age I guess.

kaibee 4y ago
Try Fallout 2.
ericd 4y ago
It's not just nostalgia, go play Fallout 2, GoG has a copy that should work. It holds up extremely well, because it's just a much better game than the Bethesda versions. The writing, the humor, the world building, it feels a lot more alive and real than the much more technically advanced iterations. Fallout 1 is less polished, but also great. Fallout 3+ always felt like a reskinned Elder Scrolls to me.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  I did exactly that. Multiple times, including before Fallout 3 came out, after, and also pretty recently. IMHO, Fallout 2 sucks in comparison with anything F3+. Worldbuilding might be there, but the gameplay simply isn't. There's nothing wrong with being "a reskinned Elder Scrolls". Elder Scrolls is a great game (series). It is up there in the hall of masterpieces along with GTA and CS. If you don't believe my word, look at Steam stats: https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ Like many here I also believed F3 and NV had better storytelling. But many hours of playing later, I see that I actually prefer F4.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    I think most of F and ES games are pretty boring, and the chart is about as compelling as cable ratings the Big Bang theory is a great show. It has mass appeal. It’s a very successful game. But they seem dull to me. The newer ones at least.
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      The chart is more compelling than your (or mine) personal opinion. Especially, when it is not substantiated.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
antisthenes 4y ago
> I think a lot of people see the older games through nostalgia lenses when their lives were better/minds were younger/they were first experiencing an engrossing RPG. Yes, they do. But it is absolutely not the case here, sorry. F4 is just a worse game. It's not the worst game in the series or the genre, but it is utterly mediocre and not at all an example of a resounding success in Bethesda's history as a game company. Metacritic's 5.6/10 User score agrees with me. Doesn't mean you have to stop liking the game. There are plenty of bad games we all play as guilty pleasures. Also, just FYI, I think Fallout 1, the first game in the series is a pretty awful game. It's extremely short, the side quests are all boring fetch/kill quests, the open world is mostly dead. F2 was a huge improvement upon it.
- D13Fd 4y ago
  That’s funny. I played them both at release. I thought Fallout 1 was incredible. I remember getting the trailer literally on VHS tape and being so hyped for it, and it totally lived up to it. It was unlike anything else at the time. Fallout 2 felt kind of watered down by comparison. The whole idea to move the series back by 80 or so years was terrible. The enclave was a terrible idea. The first Fallout made sense 80 years after the war. Everything looks basically the same. People still live in bombed out buildings. Nothing makes sense. The second and later Fallouts were all set way too late.
poisonarena 4y ago
I was a fan of all of them but 4 just felt really dumbed down as far as the story and rpg elements.. I grew up on 1-3 and didn't play NV until last year when I was 36, and I really loved it. It seems to really focus on the crafting and base building and for me that part was not so fun, even though I like the idea
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
robonerd 4y ago
I first played Morrowind two or three years ago, a few years after I first played Fallout 4. No nostalgia glasses for me, I had negative interest in games like Morrowind when Morrowind was new. But playing Morrowind made me realize just how crap Fallout 4 is as an RPG. Fallout 4 has almost no choices to make and all the characters worship you as a messiah five minutes after meeting you. Morrowind is very rough around the edges, the roll-based combat system was a very hard swallow. But despite the rough/exploitable mechanics and the bad graphics, Morrowind still manages to be a much more immersive world because the people in it actually make sense. They have their own agendas and biases and they don't care about you until you give them a reason to care. In Morrowind you join a faction and are given orders by some regional flunky, or worse, that regional flunky tells you to buzz off and do shitty odd jobs for another apprentice in the faction. In Fallout 4 you approach a faction and immediately meet the faction leader who tells you that you're Howard's own gift to humanity.

panzagl 4y ago

I think FO76 is better than 4- nearly all of the RPG systems (dialogue, perks, crafting) have been improved, the world design is much more interesting, and the map has a ton of hidden corners to poke around in.

mr_toad 4y ago

> It's an extremely dumbed-down RPG experience The main story was weak, and the side content varies, but the game is sprawling and full of ‘hidden’ gems. In what other game could you eavesdrop on raiders discussing Henry David Thoreau in their lair at a former gift shop at Walden Pond? A gift shop at Walden Pond is itself ironically and darkly humorous.