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While I don't know about the plugin ecosystem of Vim/Emacs, I definitely agree with the learning curve part. In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I

While I don't know about the plugin ecosystem of Vim/Emacs, I definitely agree with the learning curve part. In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut. In Vscode even if I forgot Cmd+W/Q I can simply click the close button. Not to mention that all the shortcuts are just globally used shortcuts in all the other software. While I respect praising by the community of Vim/Emacs, I really don't think it's beginner-friendly. So anyone starting a software career virtually picks Vscode, gets used to it, and almost has no reason to switch to something else for now unless they need something extremely specific.

prmoustache 4y ago
I don't know. The rare time I use vscode instead of neovim I always end up with a lot of random characters into the code and have to close it without saving for fear of having broken something. You call that user friendly?
- kamaal 4y ago
  >>You call that user friendly? User friendly is what most users find it easy to use. Your argument is more on the lines that you are a legacy user who does't want to move. The whole idea of using vim/emacs was when intellisense/autocomplete was in its infancy. And programming general required using typing skills as a autocomplete mechanism. The only real use of all that edit-commands-as-a-mini-language philosophy of vim is to write keyboard macros. Which again was needed because people lacked decent autocomplete features. Besides typing fast itself isn't connected to coding productivity these days.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    See my previous comment. LSP/intellisense support is available on vim/neovim and many other editors. It is not like it is an exclusivity to vscode. Also many people actually configure their vscode to use vim-like keyboard bindings because they actually like the separation of the different modes. Macros, substitutions and search commands are useful for many things and an editor like vim/neovim/emacs is not only used for code. Nobody ever talked about typing fast.
BeetleB 4y ago
> In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut. Or, you know, you could just click on the File menu and click on Quit.
- theonething 4y ago
  You've never run them in a terminal?
  - kstrauser 4y ago
    You can’t run VSCode or Atom in a terminal, so I don’t think that’s a fair comparison.
    - theonething 4y ago
      ??? I'm not making that comparison. GP's post was in response to the complaint that Emacs/Vim are hard to exit. They said that "Or, you know, you could just click on the File menu and click on Quit." And I'm just saying you can't do that in the terminal. Not sure what you're going on about.
  - thayne 4y ago
    Your terminal doesn't have a way to exit it?
    - theonething 4y ago
      Are you suggesting a good way to quit vim/emacs is by exiting the terminal?
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    > You've never run them in a terminal? When I run Emacs with a blank config, the default display has this: Get help C-h (Hold down CTRL and press h) Emacs manual C-h r Browse manuals C-h i Emacs tutorial C-h t Undo changes C-x u Buy manuals C-h RET Exit Emacs C-x C-c Activate menubar M-`
ParetoOptimal 4y ago
> In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut. With emacs this is a feature, not a bug ;)
medo-bear 4y ago
> In Vscode even if I forgot Cmd+W/Q I can simply click the close button there is a close button in emacs. however unlike vscode, emacs can also run in the terminal > So anyone starting a software career virtually picks Vscode, gets used to it, and almost has no reason to switch to something else for now unless they need something extremely specific can be said about windows too. i started off on windows and jetbrains. today im on minimal linux, stumpwm as window manager, and emacs for everything except browsing. i find it very liberating having cut down my dependencies without having cut down functionality

prmoustache 4y ago

I don't know. The rare time I use vscode instead of neovim I always end up with a lot of random characters into the code and have to close it without saving for fear of having broken something. You call that user friendly?

kamaal 4y ago
>>You call that user friendly? User friendly is what most users find it easy to use. Your argument is more on the lines that you are a legacy user who does't want to move. The whole idea of using vim/emacs was when intellisense/autocomplete was in its infancy. And programming general required using typing skills as a autocomplete mechanism. The only real use of all that edit-commands-as-a-mini-language philosophy of vim is to write keyboard macros. Which again was needed because people lacked decent autocomplete features. Besides typing fast itself isn't connected to coding productivity these days.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  See my previous comment. LSP/intellisense support is available on vim/neovim and many other editors. It is not like it is an exclusivity to vscode. Also many people actually configure their vscode to use vim-like keyboard bindings because they actually like the separation of the different modes. Macros, substitutions and search commands are useful for many things and an editor like vim/neovim/emacs is not only used for code. Nobody ever talked about typing fast.

BeetleB 4y ago

> In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut. Or, you know, you could just click on the File menu and click on Quit.

theonething 4y ago
You've never run them in a terminal?
- kstrauser 4y ago
  You can’t run VSCode or Atom in a terminal, so I don’t think that’s a fair comparison.
  - theonething 4y ago
    ??? I'm not making that comparison. GP's post was in response to the complaint that Emacs/Vim are hard to exit. They said that "Or, you know, you could just click on the File menu and click on Quit." And I'm just saying you can't do that in the terminal. Not sure what you're going on about.
- thayne 4y ago
  Your terminal doesn't have a way to exit it?
  - theonething 4y ago
    Are you suggesting a good way to quit vim/emacs is by exiting the terminal?
- BeetleB 4y ago
  > You've never run them in a terminal? When I run Emacs with a blank config, the default display has this: Get help C-h (Hold down CTRL and press h) Emacs manual C-h r Browse manuals C-h i Emacs tutorial C-h t Undo changes C-x u Buy manuals C-h RET Exit Emacs C-x C-c Activate menubar M-`

ParetoOptimal 4y ago

> In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut. With emacs this is a feature, not a bug ;)

medo-bear 4y ago

> In Vscode even if I forgot Cmd+W/Q I can simply click the close button there is a close button in emacs. however unlike vscode, emacs can also run in the terminal > So anyone starting a software career virtually picks Vscode, gets used to it, and almost has no reason to switch to something else for now unless they need something extremely specific can be said about windows too. i started off on windows and jetbrains. today im on minimal linux, stumpwm as window manager, and emacs for everything except browsing. i find it very liberating having cut down my dependencies without having cut down functionality