3 ms·

It's basically the same thing, just regulated. When you follow the (extremely limit in the US, thankfully at least a bit more complex in other developed countri

by sofixa 4y ago

It's basically the same thing, just regulated. When you follow the (extremely limit in the US, thankfully at least a bit more complex in other developed countries) rules to give money to a politician for favours it's called lobbying. You can lobby without money too ( by voicing your opinion), so maybe that's where you see a difference?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> basically the same thing, just regulated Campaign expenditures are audited and regulated. Lobbying generally involves little of material value going to the politician—it’s connecting with experts and writing bills their staff are too stretched to deal with. PACs are the black hole in the equation. But if you think a PAC can just buy a politician a boat or a house without consequences, you’ve severely underestimated the FBI’s appetite for those kinds of cases. Conflating these modes normalises actual bribery.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  > if you think a PAC can just buy a politician a boat or a house without consequences That's not the problem. The problem is the spending on political campaigning. They're bribing the politicians with the political power of office (if they don't take the money, then it's almost impossible for them to get elected). Other countries deal with this by having strict (and relatively low) limits on campaign spending.
- jbverschoor 4y ago
  Well sure believe what you want about regulation and audits.. one of the least corrupt countries (the Netherlands) has scandal after scandal. If the information is not there, it can't be audited. And politicians seem to have very bad memory.
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  You can take a personal loan as a politician to support your campaign and have that paid back by campaign contributions. A house can be bought in an revocable trust by a political friend and be used as the politician's home address for residency purposes and physical residency purposes. Speaking engagements and their ilk often pay politicians for minimal work. A cousin or friend can be paid by a politician's campaign to perform services for a campaign. Most politicians and elected officials receive 2X or 3X pension time served over regular firefighters and first responders and other public state empolyees. A part-time politician over 5 years earns as much pension as a public employee working for 10-15 years in many states. Benefits abound in the rules for the rulemakers. "Arm's length transactions" are more heavily regulated for corporate minions than they are for politicians in many ways.
formerkrogemp 4y ago
Lobbying without money is whispering in a cacophonous, raucous jungle of influence. You will not be heard most of the time.

by sofixa 4y ago

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> basically the same thing, just regulated Campaign expenditures are audited and regulated. Lobbying generally involves little of material value going to the politician—it’s connecting with experts and writing bills their staff are too stretched to deal with. PACs are the black hole in the equation. But if you think a PAC can just buy a politician a boat or a house without consequences, you’ve severely underestimated the FBI’s appetite for those kinds of cases. Conflating these modes normalises actual bribery.

nicoburns 4y ago
> if you think a PAC can just buy a politician a boat or a house without consequences That's not the problem. The problem is the spending on political campaigning. They're bribing the politicians with the political power of office (if they don't take the money, then it's almost impossible for them to get elected). Other countries deal with this by having strict (and relatively low) limits on campaign spending.
jbverschoor 4y ago
Well sure believe what you want about regulation and audits.. one of the least corrupt countries (the Netherlands) has scandal after scandal. If the information is not there, it can't be audited. And politicians seem to have very bad memory.
formerkrogemp 4y ago
You can take a personal loan as a politician to support your campaign and have that paid back by campaign contributions. A house can be bought in an revocable trust by a political friend and be used as the politician's home address for residency purposes and physical residency purposes. Speaking engagements and their ilk often pay politicians for minimal work. A cousin or friend can be paid by a politician's campaign to perform services for a campaign. Most politicians and elected officials receive 2X or 3X pension time served over regular firefighters and first responders and other public state empolyees. A part-time politician over 5 years earns as much pension as a public employee working for 10-15 years in many states. Benefits abound in the rules for the rulemakers. "Arm's length transactions" are more heavily regulated for corporate minions than they are for politicians in many ways.

formerkrogemp 4y ago

Lobbying without money is whispering in a cacophonous, raucous jungle of influence. You will not be heard most of the time.