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The property tax leading to funding differences is part of the puzzle, but not all of the puzzle. In my random neck of the world we have roughly 4 school distri

The property tax leading to funding differences is part of the puzzle, but not all of the puzzle. In my random neck of the world we have roughly 4 school districts. 1) Public school 1. Covers most of the black and brown students of the area. 2) Public school 2. Covers most of the lower to middle class white students of the area. 3) Public school 3. Covers most of the higher class white students, especially families of a local high ranking private college. 4) Various private schools. Options 1-2-3 have pretty much open enrollment, you can send your kid to any of them even if they are out of district, it just means you need to drive them (they won't qualify for bussing service). If you look at public school 1, 2, and 3 - they have near identical spending per pupil. yes property taxes differ a little, but at the end of the day they are spending the same $ per pupil. However the test scores are vastly different. Test scores highly corelate with the % of students receiving free lunch, a fairly accurate proxy for poverty. The more kids in poverty, the worse test scores. But because of this, many high achieving students that have money, are sent to option 4. Since this is the best education, if you can choose anything - you do this. The next bucket of high achieving but wanting to save money send their kids to public school 3. It's reguarded as a "very good" free education. But this means the best kids are pulled out of the disticts for schools 1 and 2. Schools 1 and 2 mostly just the people who are "left" in the district, without the inclination or money to go to choise 3 or 4.

brewdad 4y ago
Even when you have poorer families who value the better education their children could receive at option 3, the transportation hurdle can be huge. Often they may lack reliable transportation of their own or work at a job or jobs that don't offer the kind of flexibility in the workday that white-collar workers tend to have.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Yes for sure. You know who can easily transport their kids 30 mins to another school? Rich, stay at home moms. You know who can't transport their kids 30 mins to another school? A single mom working 2 jobs.
- UnpossibleJim 4y ago
  It isn't just the flexibility that accounts for the differences in education. Time spent by parents, with children, on education helps account for test scores and grades. Lower income parents often have to work more hours to meet the basic needs and have a lower educational background to help their children with schoolwork. A study showed that even having a home library would be beneficial to children in a myriad of ways, which isn't as feasible to a low income family who isn't rent stable. https://www.jcfs.org/blog/importance-having-books-your-home#:~:text=Having%20books%20in%20the%20home,development%2C%20attention%20and%20job%20attainment https://www.jcfs.org/blog/importance-having-books-your-home#....
skyde 4y ago
you are saying school (1,2,3) get same funding per pupil. but test score for 1 is worse than 3. So why send you kid to school 4 instead of school 3 ? Is the test score at school 4 significantly better? I am a parent of a 4 years old, and we recently moved from Canada to USA. Option (4) in Canada is almost non-existent so this is new to me! I have been trying to compare test-score between private schools and public school to decide if private school is worth it. But found that most private school do not publish their test score and it's extremely hard to compare them side-by-side. Any idea how they could be compared in a data-drive way?
- brianwawok 4y ago
  > you are saying school (1,2,3) get same funding per pupil. but test score for 1 is worse than 3. Yes, and in fact its petty big jumps. 3 >> 2 >> 1. We are talking like 95th, 50th, and 10th percentiles statewide (percentiles picked for effect, did not pull up the data) > Any idea how they could be compared in a data-drive way? Right, and that is the hard part. If they don't do the same tests, you cannot have this data. However, the more you look at layers of this data, you will find that the most important thing you care. Parents looking at school rankings have kids that perform much better than kids that have parent's who do not look at this data. For me, I knew that 3 or 4 would give my kids a fine education. So I toured both (and actually had an older kid already in #3). The reason I sprang for #4 was 1) Smaller class size. Something like 15 kids per class, vs 30. All else being equal, you get way more chances for success the closer you are to the teacher. 2) Likeminded parents. People send kids there because they want the best. They are the high achievers. The college profressors and doctors of the area. #3 wasn't too far off, but you still got to see stuff like parents smoking in the carline with their windows up and the kids locked inside (grrrr). 3) More opportunities. #3 school starts music class at like 6th grade. #4 starts like 2nd or 3rd grade. It is something not reflected in test scores, so not important to public schools. But something shown to be good, so it's available for parents.
- annoyingnoob 4y ago
  There are lots of reasons to choose a private school beyond test scores. Things like smaller class sizes, expectations about how students treat each other and staff. My kids started at private school. A new public school with a STEM/STEAM concept opened near our house. At the public school, the goal of the administration is to fill seats (they get paid based on attendance) and to provide a safe environment - education was at least 3rd on their list if not lower. When covid hit the public school pretty much failed my kids. So we went back to the private school where the kids could actually get an education. My kids were ahead when they transitioned from private to public, they were behind when they transitioned back from public to private. The kids are much happier and tell me that 'everyone at public school is a bully'. The private school uses different tests than the public school, so its hard to compare. A school where education is important and students are expected to be respectful seems like a great place to start from.
bcrosby95 4y ago
> 3) Public school 3. Covers most of the higher class white students, especially families of a local high ranking private college. I live in a place like this, except its a mix of middle and higher class students. The secret is simple: the rich parents pay for tutors for their kids. I know many families who have paid for tutors for their kids since kindergarten. Be very wary of pursuing good school districts in rich neighborhoods. If you can't afford the price of admission into that neighborhood your kid is going to have problems keeping up.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Perhaps that is your experience, but that is not mine. Tutors are only used in my areas for kids that are falling behind, not for the tip of the spear.
hyperhopper 4y ago
> Test scores highly corelate with the % of students receiving free lunch Nit: They don't highly correlate, they inversely correlate
- _dark_matter_ 4y ago
  I mean, they do highly correlate. It's an inverse correlation. Correlation tracks from -1 to 1. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation

brewdad 4y ago

Even when you have poorer families who value the better education their children could receive at option 3, the transportation hurdle can be huge. Often they may lack reliable transportation of their own or work at a job or jobs that don't offer the kind of flexibility in the workday that white-collar workers tend to have.

brianwawok 4y ago
Yes for sure. You know who can easily transport their kids 30 mins to another school? Rich, stay at home moms. You know who can't transport their kids 30 mins to another school? A single mom working 2 jobs.
UnpossibleJim 4y ago
It isn't just the flexibility that accounts for the differences in education. Time spent by parents, with children, on education helps account for test scores and grades. Lower income parents often have to work more hours to meet the basic needs and have a lower educational background to help their children with schoolwork. A study showed that even having a home library would be beneficial to children in a myriad of ways, which isn't as feasible to a low income family who isn't rent stable. https://www.jcfs.org/blog/importance-having-books-your-home#:~:text=Having%20books%20in%20the%20home,development%2C%20attention%20and%20job%20attainment https://www.jcfs.org/blog/importance-having-books-your-home#....

skyde 4y ago

you are saying school (1,2,3) get same funding per pupil. but test score for 1 is worse than 3. So why send you kid to school 4 instead of school 3 ? Is the test score at school 4 significantly better? I am a parent of a 4 years old, and we recently moved from Canada to USA. Option (4) in Canada is almost non-existent so this is new to me! I have been trying to compare test-score between private schools and public school to decide if private school is worth it. But found that most private school do not publish their test score and it's extremely hard to compare them side-by-side. Any idea how they could be compared in a data-drive way?

brianwawok 4y ago
> you are saying school (1,2,3) get same funding per pupil. but test score for 1 is worse than 3. Yes, and in fact its petty big jumps. 3 >> 2 >> 1. We are talking like 95th, 50th, and 10th percentiles statewide (percentiles picked for effect, did not pull up the data) > Any idea how they could be compared in a data-drive way? Right, and that is the hard part. If they don't do the same tests, you cannot have this data. However, the more you look at layers of this data, you will find that the most important thing you care. Parents looking at school rankings have kids that perform much better than kids that have parent's who do not look at this data. For me, I knew that 3 or 4 would give my kids a fine education. So I toured both (and actually had an older kid already in #3). The reason I sprang for #4 was 1) Smaller class size. Something like 15 kids per class, vs 30. All else being equal, you get way more chances for success the closer you are to the teacher. 2) Likeminded parents. People send kids there because they want the best. They are the high achievers. The college profressors and doctors of the area. #3 wasn't too far off, but you still got to see stuff like parents smoking in the carline with their windows up and the kids locked inside (grrrr). 3) More opportunities. #3 school starts music class at like 6th grade. #4 starts like 2nd or 3rd grade. It is something not reflected in test scores, so not important to public schools. But something shown to be good, so it's available for parents.
annoyingnoob 4y ago
There are lots of reasons to choose a private school beyond test scores. Things like smaller class sizes, expectations about how students treat each other and staff. My kids started at private school. A new public school with a STEM/STEAM concept opened near our house. At the public school, the goal of the administration is to fill seats (they get paid based on attendance) and to provide a safe environment - education was at least 3rd on their list if not lower. When covid hit the public school pretty much failed my kids. So we went back to the private school where the kids could actually get an education. My kids were ahead when they transitioned from private to public, they were behind when they transitioned back from public to private. The kids are much happier and tell me that 'everyone at public school is a bully'. The private school uses different tests than the public school, so its hard to compare. A school where education is important and students are expected to be respectful seems like a great place to start from.

bcrosby95 4y ago

> 3) Public school 3. Covers most of the higher class white students, especially families of a local high ranking private college. I live in a place like this, except its a mix of middle and higher class students. The secret is simple: the rich parents pay for tutors for their kids. I know many families who have paid for tutors for their kids since kindergarten. Be very wary of pursuing good school districts in rich neighborhoods. If you can't afford the price of admission into that neighborhood your kid is going to have problems keeping up.

brianwawok 4y ago
Perhaps that is your experience, but that is not mine. Tutors are only used in my areas for kids that are falling behind, not for the tip of the spear.

hyperhopper 4y ago

> Test scores highly corelate with the % of students receiving free lunch Nit: They don't highly correlate, they inversely correlate

_dark_matter_ 4y ago
I mean, they do highly correlate. It's an inverse correlation. Correlation tracks from -1 to 1. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation