4 ms·

I have enormous respect for the systems, complexity and emergent behaviour (eg [1]) that these two guys have created over decades at this point and continue to

by cletus 4y ago

I have enormous respect for the systems, complexity and emergent behaviour (eg [1]) that these two guys have created over decades at this point and continue to create. But I just cannot get into DF in the way I would like. Even with Dwarf Therapist, custom tile sets and so on it's still a management nightmare. I am told some people just have a lot of idle dwarves. It always struck me as there were too many dwarves before you've created any sort of structure. I got to a point where I needed a militia to defend against some monster and that was going to be a whole new system I'd heave to learn, assign dwarves to, suplly and manage and I was like "this is too much". I know failure is the default mode (and some consider inevitable). It's a cool feature that if you play again on the same world you can find your old ruins. I wish this were in a form where a community could contribute to and build this out because I think it could really help. I understand these guys derive an income from it and I support them in that. It just seems like there's so much missed potential here. Some good iconography would go a really long way. If dawrves were wandering around with symbols above their heads showing they were hungry, thirsty, sad or whatever without having to inspect them you could communicate a lot of information. You might be able to see you have a food shortage problem or why dwarves have wnadered off looking for food. Or even that they're just bored. If you were looking at dwarves you could see that they're your militia or your farmers or your miners. Not visually conveying information just seems like a massive missed opportunity. [1]: https://www.eurogamer.net/why-dwarf-fortress-started-killing-cats https://www.eurogamer.net/why-dwarf-fortress-started-killing...

drewcoo 4y ago
Losing is fun! https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Losing https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Losing
bombcar 4y ago
There's a config option to limit the total max number of dwarves, which can help (though mainly on peaceful or similar starts - obviously you can't fight a war without dwarves). I believe the dwarves now will flash some various icons (in the text mode they'd flip between the dwarf character and a downwards red arrow, for example) but it's usually when they're almost dead of whatever it is.
pwillia7 4y ago
Check out Rimworld for something more digestible
feoren 4y ago
> It always struck me as there were too many dwarves before you've created any sort of structure. Agreed, which is why the first thing I build in any new fortress is a giant wall around my fortress with only one way in: a long retractable bridge over a giant pit of death. When new migrants arrive before I'm ready, I flip the switch as they're crossing the bridge. Rather gruesome, but I do get all their stuff and my fortress gets a reputation for being dangerous, so fewer migrants show up.
- ravi-delia 4y ago
  See this is why DF absolutely should not be fixed. What would it be without a murderdrawbridge?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Dwarf Fortress is somewhat like Stellaris in that it will turn the nicest saint into a genocidal maniac quite quickly.
outworlder 4y ago
My problem is a very close one - handling the waves of migrants the game throws at you. Even with Dwarf Therapist, there's just way too many jobs to keep track of. I'm kinda ok with idle dwarfs if everything is being attended to. I would generally take idle dwarfs and turn then into a militia. It seems my fortresses start to break down at around the 30 dwarf mark, but after 10 it already starts to run not-optimally. Had better luck with Rimworld as generally it takes a while to build your numbers.
- shultays 4y ago
  At some point the game mostly becomes creating job orders (instead of creating orders manually) and trying to figure out bottlenecks in your fort. It might be lack of materials, lack of assigned dwarf (or all of them busy or something) etc Give dwarf therapist a try if you haven't already, it makes changing jobs a lot easier. There will be always idle dwarves. For example you will want your critical dwarves (manager) free unless you need them. And you will want specialized dwarves (say one just for wood cutting) that only does one job and will be free and available the moment that job is needed. Also a trick I use for handling new migrants, there is a useless job (alchemy? can't remember). I toggle that on for all my dwarves. And when a new wave joins in, I can easily find them by looking at dwarves with that job toggled off. Assign them jobs and then I toggle alchemy as well.
assbuttbuttass 4y ago
Check out the dfhack autolabor plugin. It automatically enables and disables labors on dwarves to maximize fortress utilization. For example, it will enable hauling as a job on any otherwise idle dwarves.
db48x 4y ago
You need your dwarves to be idle from time to time, otherwise they are overworked. Incidentally, the dwarves _do_ get symbols over their heads when they are hungry, thirsty, wounded, insane, etc. Also, the appearance of each dwarf is based entirely on that dwarf’s profession. The fact that all of your suggested improvements are basic features of the game and have been since the beginning is telling.
- db48x 4y ago
  On reflection I feel that I should be more specific. Your dwarves need many things in order to stay happy and emotionally balanced. They need rest, relaxation, socialization, friendships, relationships, family, music, dance, worship, knowledge, culture, art, beauty, competence, alcohol and nostalgia. (And possibly several others that I have forgotten.) One or two of these things can be gained while they are working, but the rest all require that they not be pursuing tasks dictated by the player, which means that they are counted as “idle”.
muzani 4y ago
I think part of that was fixed in the update last year: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179190.0 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179190.0 And most of the updates in the past few months have been around UI and UX.
avereveard 4y ago
> If dawrves were wandering around with symbols above their heads showing they were hungry, thirsty, sad or whatever But there is, they flash various status icons. Except idle. But you can find idlers at the gathering zone The only thing that misses in the flashing status that I can recall is "waiting for a party to start" and they all just sit in the dining hall until everyone scheduled for the party arrives. That threw me off s little sometime as they just stand, while normal idlers at least wander a little.
shultays 4y ago
Militia is just... bad. Everything about it. Managing squads, equipment etc is just overly complicated and full of bugs. And no such thing as balance. Just seal yourself off and/or use dfhack to kill enemies.

by cletus 4y ago

drewcoo 4y ago

Losing is fun! https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Losing https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Losing

bombcar 4y ago

There's a config option to limit the total max number of dwarves, which can help (though mainly on peaceful or similar starts - obviously you can't fight a war without dwarves). I believe the dwarves now will flash some various icons (in the text mode they'd flip between the dwarf character and a downwards red arrow, for example) but it's usually when they're almost dead of whatever it is.

pwillia7 4y ago

Check out Rimworld for something more digestible

feoren 4y ago

> It always struck me as there were too many dwarves before you've created any sort of structure. Agreed, which is why the first thing I build in any new fortress is a giant wall around my fortress with only one way in: a long retractable bridge over a giant pit of death. When new migrants arrive before I'm ready, I flip the switch as they're crossing the bridge. Rather gruesome, but I do get all their stuff and my fortress gets a reputation for being dangerous, so fewer migrants show up.

ravi-delia 4y ago
See this is why DF absolutely should not be fixed. What would it be without a murderdrawbridge?
- bombcar 4y ago
  Dwarf Fortress is somewhat like Stellaris in that it will turn the nicest saint into a genocidal maniac quite quickly.

outworlder 4y ago

My problem is a very close one - handling the waves of migrants the game throws at you. Even with Dwarf Therapist, there's just way too many jobs to keep track of. I'm kinda ok with idle dwarfs if everything is being attended to. I would generally take idle dwarfs and turn then into a militia. It seems my fortresses start to break down at around the 30 dwarf mark, but after 10 it already starts to run not-optimally. Had better luck with Rimworld as generally it takes a while to build your numbers.

shultays 4y ago
At some point the game mostly becomes creating job orders (instead of creating orders manually) and trying to figure out bottlenecks in your fort. It might be lack of materials, lack of assigned dwarf (or all of them busy or something) etc Give dwarf therapist a try if you haven't already, it makes changing jobs a lot easier. There will be always idle dwarves. For example you will want your critical dwarves (manager) free unless you need them. And you will want specialized dwarves (say one just for wood cutting) that only does one job and will be free and available the moment that job is needed. Also a trick I use for handling new migrants, there is a useless job (alchemy? can't remember). I toggle that on for all my dwarves. And when a new wave joins in, I can easily find them by looking at dwarves with that job toggled off. Assign them jobs and then I toggle alchemy as well.

assbuttbuttass 4y ago

Check out the dfhack autolabor plugin. It automatically enables and disables labors on dwarves to maximize fortress utilization. For example, it will enable hauling as a job on any otherwise idle dwarves.

db48x 4y ago

You need your dwarves to be idle from time to time, otherwise they are overworked. Incidentally, the dwarves _do_ get symbols over their heads when they are hungry, thirsty, wounded, insane, etc. Also, the appearance of each dwarf is based entirely on that dwarf’s profession. The fact that all of your suggested improvements are basic features of the game and have been since the beginning is telling.

db48x 4y ago
On reflection I feel that I should be more specific. Your dwarves need many things in order to stay happy and emotionally balanced. They need rest, relaxation, socialization, friendships, relationships, family, music, dance, worship, knowledge, culture, art, beauty, competence, alcohol and nostalgia. (And possibly several others that I have forgotten.) One or two of these things can be gained while they are working, but the rest all require that they not be pursuing tasks dictated by the player, which means that they are counted as “idle”.

muzani 4y ago

I think part of that was fixed in the update last year: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179190.0 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179190.0 And most of the updates in the past few months have been around UI and UX.

avereveard 4y ago

> If dawrves were wandering around with symbols above their heads showing they were hungry, thirsty, sad or whatever But there is, they flash various status icons. Except idle. But you can find idlers at the gathering zone The only thing that misses in the flashing status that I can recall is "waiting for a party to start" and they all just sit in the dining hall until everyone scheduled for the party arrives. That threw me off s little sometime as they just stand, while normal idlers at least wander a little.

shultays 4y ago

Militia is just... bad. Everything about it. Managing squads, equipment etc is just overly complicated and full of bugs. And no such thing as balance. Just seal yourself off and/or use dfhack to kill enemies.