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> Emacs, vim Unlike VSCode, Emacs and Vim have a learning curve. And turning them into full blown IDEs makes their usage even more complex. > Sublime Sadly,

> Emacs, vim Unlike VSCode, Emacs and Vim have a learning curve. And turning them into full blown IDEs makes their usage even more complex. > Sublime Sadly, Sublime is sort of dead. > TextMate TextMate: Text editor for macOS

shakow 4y ago
> Unlike VSCode, Emacs and Vim have a learning curve. That's not the point, we were talking about plugins.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  I think that the learning curve might be in reference to installing plugins. Installing an extension on vim (never done emacs) is something that does not just happen easily. There is no intuitive search for extensions built in, you likely have to install software that manages your plugins. VSCode on the other hand rarely requires more than a single click through a built in interface. The plugin ecosystem exists for command line editors, but it definitely has a learning curve
  - chlorion 4y ago
    Emacs has a built in package manager as well as several alternative external package managers! Most of the time installing a package is as simple as running "package-install" or having a "use-package" expression somewhere in the init scripts! I personally do not use any of these package managers and instead use my systems package manager on Gentoo to manage everything. Gentoo has most of the popular projects in the ::gentoo repo under app-emacs, and packaging your own is only a few lines of bash.
  - marxplank 4y ago
    nope, Emacs has an existing package installer and several packages in itself which make package installation easier than even VSCode or Atom
enahs-sf 4y ago
At risk of dating myself, I am still rocking with sublime text and vim.
- theonething 4y ago
  I'm still rocking with just vim.
medo-bear 4y ago
> Unlike VSCode, Emacs and Vim have a learning curve have you seen the extent of available emacs packages? maybe it is a learning curve for a person who just learned how to power on a computer but i find emacs soo much more approachable
boredtofears 4y ago
Sublime is very much not dead. It's still much faster than vscode or any other heavyweight IDE.
nh2 4y ago
> Sadly, Sublime is sort of dead. Sublime has ongoing development on https://www.sublimetext.com/dev https://www.sublimetext.com/dev and the last major release (4) was just about a year ago.
- _puk 4y ago
  I was under the impression that the "forced" upgrade to Sublime 4 caught quite a few out, and may have been a nail in the coffin. I'm still rocking SLT 3, and it's my go-to for large file handling or just as a simple scratchpad, but development (of SLT) feels like it moves at a snails pace.
  - w0m 4y ago
    > but development (of SLT) feels like it moves at a snails pace. This is how it's always been I think; their model.
    - wsc981 4y ago
      > This is how it's always been I think; their model. I don't think ST needs to move fast. It's a good quality editor. It doesn't need a bunch of new features every couple of months. Just getting a major update once a year is fine imo.
  - smolder 4y ago
    I'm in the same boat. I bought ST3 and have avoided going to 4, as now it's just my scratch pad and .txt viewer, not really used for development.
  - Shorel 4y ago
    I can live with a 'LICENSE UPGRADE REQUIRED' text in the title bar. Everything works just the same, and I don't get the purchase pop-ups.
can16358p 4y ago
While I don't know about the plugin ecosystem of Vim/Emacs, I definitely agree with the learning curve part. In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut. In Vscode even if I forgot Cmd+W/Q I can simply click the close button. Not to mention that all the shortcuts are just globally used shortcuts in all the other software. While I respect praising by the community of Vim/Emacs, I really don't think it's beginner-friendly. So anyone starting a software career virtually picks Vscode, gets used to it, and almost has no reason to switch to something else for now unless they need something extremely specific.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  I don't know. The rare time I use vscode instead of neovim I always end up with a lot of random characters into the code and have to close it without saving for fear of having broken something. You call that user friendly?
  - kamaal 4y ago
    >>You call that user friendly? User friendly is what most users find it easy to use. Your argument is more on the lines that you are a legacy user who does't want to move. The whole idea of using vim/emacs was when intellisense/autocomplete was in its infancy. And programming general required using typing skills as a autocomplete mechanism. The only real use of all that edit-commands-as-a-mini-language philosophy of vim is to write keyboard macros. Which again was needed because people lacked decent autocomplete features. Besides typing fast itself isn't connected to coding productivity these days.
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      See my previous comment. LSP/intellisense support is available on vim/neovim and many other editors. It is not like it is an exclusivity to vscode. Also many people actually configure their vscode to use vim-like keyboard bindings because they actually like the separation of the different modes. Macros, substitutions and search commands are useful for many things and an editor like vim/neovim/emacs is not only used for code. Nobody ever talked about typing fast.

shakow 4y ago

> Unlike VSCode, Emacs and Vim have a learning curve. That's not the point, we were talking about plugins.

dghlsakjg 4y ago
I think that the learning curve might be in reference to installing plugins. Installing an extension on vim (never done emacs) is something that does not just happen easily. There is no intuitive search for extensions built in, you likely have to install software that manages your plugins. VSCode on the other hand rarely requires more than a single click through a built in interface. The plugin ecosystem exists for command line editors, but it definitely has a learning curve
- chlorion 4y ago
  Emacs has a built in package manager as well as several alternative external package managers! Most of the time installing a package is as simple as running "package-install" or having a "use-package" expression somewhere in the init scripts! I personally do not use any of these package managers and instead use my systems package manager on Gentoo to manage everything. Gentoo has most of the popular projects in the ::gentoo repo under app-emacs, and packaging your own is only a few lines of bash.
- marxplank 4y ago
  nope, Emacs has an existing package installer and several packages in itself which make package installation easier than even VSCode or Atom

enahs-sf 4y ago

At risk of dating myself, I am still rocking with sublime text and vim.

theonething 4y ago
I'm still rocking with just vim.

medo-bear 4y ago

> Unlike VSCode, Emacs and Vim have a learning curve have you seen the extent of available emacs packages? maybe it is a learning curve for a person who just learned how to power on a computer but i find emacs soo much more approachable

boredtofears 4y ago

Sublime is very much not dead. It's still much faster than vscode or any other heavyweight IDE.

nh2 4y ago

> Sadly, Sublime is sort of dead. Sublime has ongoing development on https://www.sublimetext.com/dev https://www.sublimetext.com/dev and the last major release (4) was just about a year ago.

_puk 4y ago
I was under the impression that the "forced" upgrade to Sublime 4 caught quite a few out, and may have been a nail in the coffin. I'm still rocking SLT 3, and it's my go-to for large file handling or just as a simple scratchpad, but development (of SLT) feels like it moves at a snails pace.
- w0m 4y ago
  > but development (of SLT) feels like it moves at a snails pace. This is how it's always been I think; their model.
  - wsc981 4y ago
    > This is how it's always been I think; their model. I don't think ST needs to move fast. It's a good quality editor. It doesn't need a bunch of new features every couple of months. Just getting a major update once a year is fine imo.
- smolder 4y ago
  I'm in the same boat. I bought ST3 and have avoided going to 4, as now it's just my scratch pad and .txt viewer, not really used for development.
- Shorel 4y ago
  I can live with a 'LICENSE UPGRADE REQUIRED' text in the title bar. Everything works just the same, and I don't get the purchase pop-ups.

can16358p 4y ago

While I don't know about the plugin ecosystem of Vim/Emacs, I definitely agree with the learning curve part. In Emacs/Vim I can't even escape the program if I don't know a keyboard shortcut. In Vscode even if I forgot Cmd+W/Q I can simply click the close button. Not to mention that all the shortcuts are just globally used shortcuts in all the other software. While I respect praising by the community of Vim/Emacs, I really don't think it's beginner-friendly. So anyone starting a software career virtually picks Vscode, gets used to it, and almost has no reason to switch to something else for now unless they need something extremely specific.

prmoustache 4y ago
I don't know. The rare time I use vscode instead of neovim I always end up with a lot of random characters into the code and have to close it without saving for fear of having broken something. You call that user friendly?
- kamaal 4y ago
  >>You call that user friendly? User friendly is what most users find it easy to use. Your argument is more on the lines that you are a legacy user who does't want to move. The whole idea of using vim/emacs was when intellisense/autocomplete was in its infancy. And programming general required using typing skills as a autocomplete mechanism. The only real use of all that edit-commands-as-a-mini-language philosophy of vim is to write keyboard macros. Which again was needed because people lacked decent autocomplete features. Besides typing fast itself isn't connected to coding productivity these days.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    See my previous comment. LSP/intellisense support is available on vim/neovim and many other editors. It is not like it is an exclusivity to vscode. Also many people actually configure their vscode to use vim-like keyboard bindings because they actually like the separation of the different modes. Macros, substitutions and search commands are useful for many things and an editor like vim/neovim/emacs is not only used for code. Nobody ever talked about typing fast.