3 ms·

Gifted children are rare enough that they can be dealt with one at a time. I see no need for special programs. In contrast handicapped children may require spec

Gifted children are rare enough that they can be dealt with one at a time. I see no need for special programs. In contrast handicapped children may require special attention. OTOH I have seen students unwilling to attend a particular school b/c it has a reputation for behavioral problems and also low testing scores. So best spend money on improving education for all. I would like to see more usage of an old tradition: better students helping others during class. This promotes cameraderie and provides different perspectives for both parties. It always helps to "stand in another man's shoes" and see the world from that new perspective.

brunoTbear 4y ago
This is a tradition that can go the way of other great old traditions like catching polio. In my experience it did nothing but find a way for me to be forced to spend more time with bullies and suffer trying to explain something to them that they were decidedly uninterested in learning.
iisan7 4y ago
sometimes that can work but I have my doubts as to it being a good general policy. not at all guaranteed that it promotes camaraderie, over, say being called arrogant, teacher's pet, and ostracized by the others as 'too good'. Kids should be able to form friendships with those at different levels and help their friends, but shouldn't be asked to be their teachers or mentors. it's incredibly unfair to require students in the class to function as teachers. They are there to learn, and if they've learned everything on the curriculum, they should be able to learn more. Teachers used to handle this by letting the kids have 'free time' after assignments to go to the library, or whatever. Gifted programs do this even better by putting them in a class with kids at a similar level so they are less likely to need special treatment or to be called 'smart'. This can actually help them realize early in life that they aren't automatically special because they're at the top of their class.
bena 4y ago
So why not have the normal needs students helping the children with learning dysfunctions? Promote that camaraderie all the way down. Let them see what it's like in another's shoes. Etc. All of your arguments for putting the gifted in normal classes, but applied to normal students and children with learning dysfunctions. Gifted students are special needs students. They exist on the entire other end of the spectrum than those with learning dysfunctions.
- giardini 4y ago
  >"So why not have the normal needs students helping the children with learning dysfunctions?"< Sure, that's fine. >"Gifted students are special needs students. "< Gifted students can usually take care of themselves.
  - bena 4y ago
    This is how you demonstrate that you should not be making decisions about childhood education in two answers. What you are advocating is to essentially make every class a special education class serving the students with the lowest abilities. This won't bring those with learning dysfunctions up, it will only serve to bring the rest down while also building resentment towards those with dysfunctions. And even gifted students need guidance. While they may be able to learn material on their own, knowing what material exists isn't something that is granted to one at birth. And it's not a guarantee that their interests will always align with what is necessary to learn. Your statements are also kind of contradictory. You want to eliminated gifted education and put those students in normal classrooms. When I ask if you'd be fine with putting normal students in classes with those with dysfunctions with the explicit goal of helping those students, you said fine. But then you said gifted students can take care of themselves. So why would they go to class in the first place. So, by your answers, you want to eliminate resources for children with learning dysfunctions and allow gifted children to skip school if they want. There's no way to reconcile the disparity between acknowledging that children with learning dysfunctions need additional resources and ignoring that gifted children are also a special case of student that need additional resources. Either you wind up advocating for the complete elimination of additional resources, acknowledging that not all students need all the same resources, or trying to pretzel yourself in a way where you can knock the gifted children down a peg while keeping the children with dysfunctions away from the general classes.
    - giardini 4y ago
      Nonsense. Don't put words in my mouth.
      - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

brunoTbear 4y ago

This is a tradition that can go the way of other great old traditions like catching polio. In my experience it did nothing but find a way for me to be forced to spend more time with bullies and suffer trying to explain something to them that they were decidedly uninterested in learning.

iisan7 4y ago

sometimes that can work but I have my doubts as to it being a good general policy. not at all guaranteed that it promotes camaraderie, over, say being called arrogant, teacher's pet, and ostracized by the others as 'too good'. Kids should be able to form friendships with those at different levels and help their friends, but shouldn't be asked to be their teachers or mentors. it's incredibly unfair to require students in the class to function as teachers. They are there to learn, and if they've learned everything on the curriculum, they should be able to learn more. Teachers used to handle this by letting the kids have 'free time' after assignments to go to the library, or whatever. Gifted programs do this even better by putting them in a class with kids at a similar level so they are less likely to need special treatment or to be called 'smart'. This can actually help them realize early in life that they aren't automatically special because they're at the top of their class.

bena 4y ago

So why not have the normal needs students helping the children with learning dysfunctions? Promote that camaraderie all the way down. Let them see what it's like in another's shoes. Etc. All of your arguments for putting the gifted in normal classes, but applied to normal students and children with learning dysfunctions. Gifted students are special needs students. They exist on the entire other end of the spectrum than those with learning dysfunctions.

giardini 4y ago
>"So why not have the normal needs students helping the children with learning dysfunctions?"< Sure, that's fine. >"Gifted students are special needs students. "< Gifted students can usually take care of themselves.
- bena 4y ago
  This is how you demonstrate that you should not be making decisions about childhood education in two answers. What you are advocating is to essentially make every class a special education class serving the students with the lowest abilities. This won't bring those with learning dysfunctions up, it will only serve to bring the rest down while also building resentment towards those with dysfunctions. And even gifted students need guidance. While they may be able to learn material on their own, knowing what material exists isn't something that is granted to one at birth. And it's not a guarantee that their interests will always align with what is necessary to learn. Your statements are also kind of contradictory. You want to eliminated gifted education and put those students in normal classrooms. When I ask if you'd be fine with putting normal students in classes with those with dysfunctions with the explicit goal of helping those students, you said fine. But then you said gifted students can take care of themselves. So why would they go to class in the first place. So, by your answers, you want to eliminate resources for children with learning dysfunctions and allow gifted children to skip school if they want. There's no way to reconcile the disparity between acknowledging that children with learning dysfunctions need additional resources and ignoring that gifted children are also a special case of student that need additional resources. Either you wind up advocating for the complete elimination of additional resources, acknowledging that not all students need all the same resources, or trying to pretzel yourself in a way where you can knock the gifted children down a peg while keeping the children with dysfunctions away from the general classes.
  - giardini 4y ago
    Nonsense. Don't put words in my mouth.
    - 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]