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Can there be a better display of first world (actually SF bay) problems than this post by OP? All Over the world, workers yearn for breathing time - A few minu

Can there be a better display of first world (actually SF bay) problems than this post by OP? All Over the world, workers yearn for breathing time - A few minutes away from the the production line. They wish their tool breaks and the management takes a long while to provide a replacement. What’s your issue, op? You seem very excited to generate shareholder profit.

dkarp 4y ago
Problem is you're normally still judged by what you deliver, so you can't just chill and wait for things to get done
- honkler 4y ago
  no, not really. You are judged relative to others. And others aren't producing crap ton in this sort of environment.
  - strikelaserclaw 4y ago
    i'm always baffled at the amount of effort it took pass the interview vs how easy it is to actually coast in this job and yes, you need to do just enough to keep pace with your peers.
wussboy 4y ago
It's not wrong to enjoy your work. This person's experiences are real to them, and they have the right to feel them. If only the most unfortunate person in the world can claim injustice or dissatisfaction, if only their problem can be solved, progress will grind to a halt.
- honkler 4y ago
  If they have the right to their experiences, I have right to provide my opinion on their experiences. And let's be honest, if their way of life makes it worse for the rest of the world, it's perfectly okay to publicly shame even.
  - phendrenad2 4y ago
    OP didn't say you didn't have the right, OP merely shared their opinion on your opinion of someone's experiences.
striking 4y ago
Feeling like you're constantly blocked isn't fun either. Starting to get into the groove only to have to immediately stop, having to keep track of lots of threads where people put up roadblocks to justify their own jobs, etc. is not "a few minutes away from the production line". It's work all the same, and not the work most engineers sign up to do.
- honkler 4y ago
  During that while, what stops you from reading a book, working on a consulting project on the side (thanks, WFH), learn some new skill? Life is more than serving your boss in the office.
  - striking 4y ago
    There are still targets to be met and demands still being made of you. Sure, if you have nothing to do, do something good with your time; that's not always the position people are in. > Life is more than serving your boss in the office. Sure, I don't think anyone's saying you exist to serve your boss. But if you have to work a job, why not find one you actually like doing? I think what the OP describes would be a complete drain of my energy, even if I could read a book occasionally; working on actual code during my workday gives me an opportunity to be paid to learn new things and is honestly actually energizing. Why work on a tiny Nix environment on a toy project when I could be setting up a real-world Nix development environment that's deployed across tens of developer laptops, y'know?
  - closeparen 4y ago
    I'm not serving my boss. My boss has a whole set of metrics and expectations that are quite distinct from delivering working software to customers; I use my considerable autonomy as a white-collar worker to half-ass those behind her back and spend my energies on what is actually satisfying to me, which is to craft good systems and make things work well. And as the sibling comment mentions, this is a lot more interesting when there are real customers and stakes.
spencerflem 4y ago
Agreed that purely generating shareholder profit is not worthwhile. It does suck to be forced to spend a lot of time doing something both painful and meaningless tho. Something psychological there
- honkler 4y ago
closeparen 4y ago
Put another way, software engineers are some of the few people afforded a healthy relationship with their labor - to take pride in its craftsmanship, to be satisfied by things working well and dissatisfied by things working poorly. That is cause for gratitude and celebration. This kind of oppositional attitude is toxic. I'm glad not to find it in my coworkers. And I would not accept an environment where coworkers displayed it.

dkarp 4y ago

Problem is you're normally still judged by what you deliver, so you can't just chill and wait for things to get done

honkler 4y ago
no, not really. You are judged relative to others. And others aren't producing crap ton in this sort of environment.
- strikelaserclaw 4y ago
  i'm always baffled at the amount of effort it took pass the interview vs how easy it is to actually coast in this job and yes, you need to do just enough to keep pace with your peers.

wussboy 4y ago

It's not wrong to enjoy your work. This person's experiences are real to them, and they have the right to feel them. If only the most unfortunate person in the world can claim injustice or dissatisfaction, if only their problem can be solved, progress will grind to a halt.

honkler 4y ago
If they have the right to their experiences, I have right to provide my opinion on their experiences. And let's be honest, if their way of life makes it worse for the rest of the world, it's perfectly okay to publicly shame even.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  OP didn't say you didn't have the right, OP merely shared their opinion on your opinion of someone's experiences.

striking 4y ago

Feeling like you're constantly blocked isn't fun either. Starting to get into the groove only to have to immediately stop, having to keep track of lots of threads where people put up roadblocks to justify their own jobs, etc. is not "a few minutes away from the production line". It's work all the same, and not the work most engineers sign up to do.

honkler 4y ago
During that while, what stops you from reading a book, working on a consulting project on the side (thanks, WFH), learn some new skill? Life is more than serving your boss in the office.
- striking 4y ago
  There are still targets to be met and demands still being made of you. Sure, if you have nothing to do, do something good with your time; that's not always the position people are in. > Life is more than serving your boss in the office. Sure, I don't think anyone's saying you exist to serve your boss. But if you have to work a job, why not find one you actually like doing? I think what the OP describes would be a complete drain of my energy, even if I could read a book occasionally; working on actual code during my workday gives me an opportunity to be paid to learn new things and is honestly actually energizing. Why work on a tiny Nix environment on a toy project when I could be setting up a real-world Nix development environment that's deployed across tens of developer laptops, y'know?
- closeparen 4y ago
  I'm not serving my boss. My boss has a whole set of metrics and expectations that are quite distinct from delivering working software to customers; I use my considerable autonomy as a white-collar worker to half-ass those behind her back and spend my energies on what is actually satisfying to me, which is to craft good systems and make things work well. And as the sibling comment mentions, this is a lot more interesting when there are real customers and stakes.

spencerflem 4y ago

Agreed that purely generating shareholder profit is not worthwhile. It does suck to be forced to spend a lot of time doing something both painful and meaningless tho. Something psychological there

honkler 4y ago

closeparen 4y ago

Put another way, software engineers are some of the few people afforded a healthy relationship with their labor - to take pride in its craftsmanship, to be satisfied by things working well and dissatisfied by things working poorly. That is cause for gratitude and celebration. This kind of oppositional attitude is toxic. I'm glad not to find it in my coworkers. And I would not accept an environment where coworkers displayed it.