4 ms·

> Our abortion laws are (for now) more lax than almost all European countries, The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what cont

> Our abortion laws are (for now) more lax than almost all European countries, The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what context. Which is far far more strict then most EU countries. And the current legality status is in a legal gray are as far as I know, which is also worse then in many EU countries, through in practice in some states might not. And sure there are EU countries which are also quite far right. > Our tax system is more progressive than many European countries Progressive is not the same as left/right. I'm not sure a tax system can be left/right at all. But if we look at the usage of taxes than it's a very clear no. > but our rich still need to pay their "fair share." No, not at all. Through sadly that is the case for huge parts of the word. > The left in the US wants us to essentially have completely open borders, and there's been a huge pushback to the 'refugees' coming to Europe. The US (and EU) are a major (but not the only) drivers behind the conflicts leading to the refuges...

PraetorianGourd 4y ago
> The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what context I will let you in on a little secret. The right doesn't actually want to ban abortions. They need the carrot of banning abortions to turn out voters, and abortion is a very powerful single issue. By this I mean, there are plenty of left-leaning folks who would abandon Bernie if he came out as anti-abortion, and there are plenty on the right who would turn on their candidates if they came out pro-choice. By the same token, the left also needs the right to keep wanting to ban abortions (but failing) so they can turn out the vote. It isn't as binary as it seems.
travisathougies 4y ago
> The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what context. While it's true that some republican run states are going this direction. If we look at the original case that will likely lead the SC to overturn Roe v Wade (again, it hasn't even happened yet), would be a European style ban, where abortion is allowed up until 15 weeks (this is a typical European cutoff). I believe the Mississippi law also has exceptions based on maternal health or fetal disability, which in countries like Germany, would actually require government approval in the late second and third trimester [1]. After the Roe v Wade leak, only a few GOP states have attempted to ban abortion outright. Popular GOP governors like Ron Desantis, whose name keeps coming up for 2024, signed a Mississippi style 15-week ban in Florida, instead of a full on ban. So, while it's certainly true same in the party want a 100% ban, it's also true that the mainstream ones (again, DeSantis is extremely popular, so is a good indicator of 'centrist' republican thought) are not going that direction and instead making our laws more similar to Western European countries.
- teachrdan 4y ago
  Totally false. In most western European countries, women can trivially get approved for abortion after 15 weeks. For example, in the UK, if two doctors agree that it would be too damaging for a woman to carry a pregnancy to term, she can get an abortion even after 15 weeks. Compare that to the man you said represents the mainstream of the GOP. Ron DeSantis signed a law banning abortion after 15 weeks "without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking. https://www.bpas.org/get-involved/campaigns/briefings/abortion-law/ https://www.bpas.org/get-involved/campaigns/briefings/aborti... https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/14/politics/desantis-signs-abortion-ban-florida/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/14/politics/desantis-signs-a...
  - nomel 4y ago
    Getting approval from a doctor, requiring a justified medical requirement, is not remotely trivial. I think you’re very unfamiliar with what some of the pro-abortion people are pushing in the US.
  - travisathougies 4y ago
    In the United states, including in Mississippi, which started this case that went to the Supreme court, there is no government intervention at all in your approval to have an abortion. If you're past fifteen weeks and meet the criteria, your abortion is none of the government's business. That is significantly more progressive than Europe, and any other take is not in good faith. > Ron DeSantis signed a law banning abortion after 15 weeks "without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking. You are deliberately misrepresenting the law and what I said about it. Your own article says: > The bill, which goes into effect July 1, does allow exemptions in cases where a pregnancy is "serious risk" to the mother or a fatal fetal abnormality is detected if two physicians confirm the diagnosis in writing. And Germany has no automatic exception for rape after fifteen weeks. It's up to the government. There is no government involvement in getting abortion approval in Florida. That makes florida more progressive. In fact, in Germany, abortion is illegal at all stages, just merely decriminalized. So again, Florida et al are more progressive. I don't understand why we have to do this pointless thing where we just pretend America is less libertine than all of Europe. In fact in Germany, their courts have ruled that unborn fetuses are innately entitled to human rights. The only reason abortion is allowed is because the courts have said it's okay for the legislature to not punish this kind of murder (that's what the German courts say it is, not my opinion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany

PraetorianGourd 4y ago

> The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what context I will let you in on a little secret. The right doesn't actually want to ban abortions. They need the carrot of banning abortions to turn out voters, and abortion is a very powerful single issue. By this I mean, there are plenty of left-leaning folks who would abandon Bernie if he came out as anti-abortion, and there are plenty on the right who would turn on their candidates if they came out pro-choice. By the same token, the left also needs the right to keep wanting to ban abortions (but failing) so they can turn out the vote. It isn't as binary as it seems.

travisathougies 4y ago

> The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what context. While it's true that some republican run states are going this direction. If we look at the original case that will likely lead the SC to overturn Roe v Wade (again, it hasn't even happened yet), would be a European style ban, where abortion is allowed up until 15 weeks (this is a typical European cutoff). I believe the Mississippi law also has exceptions based on maternal health or fetal disability, which in countries like Germany, would actually require government approval in the late second and third trimester [1]. After the Roe v Wade leak, only a few GOP states have attempted to ban abortion outright. Popular GOP governors like Ron Desantis, whose name keeps coming up for 2024, signed a Mississippi style 15-week ban in Florida, instead of a full on ban. So, while it's certainly true same in the party want a 100% ban, it's also true that the mainstream ones (again, DeSantis is extremely popular, so is a good indicator of 'centrist' republican thought) are not going that direction and instead making our laws more similar to Western European countries.

teachrdan 4y ago
Totally false. In most western European countries, women can trivially get approved for abortion after 15 weeks. For example, in the UK, if two doctors agree that it would be too damaging for a woman to carry a pregnancy to term, she can get an abortion even after 15 weeks. Compare that to the man you said represents the mainstream of the GOP. Ron DeSantis signed a law banning abortion after 15 weeks "without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking. https://www.bpas.org/get-involved/campaigns/briefings/abortion-law/ https://www.bpas.org/get-involved/campaigns/briefings/aborti... https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/14/politics/desantis-signs-abortion-ban-florida/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/14/politics/desantis-signs-a...
- nomel 4y ago
  Getting approval from a doctor, requiring a justified medical requirement, is not remotely trivial. I think you’re very unfamiliar with what some of the pro-abortion people are pushing in the US.
- travisathougies 4y ago
  In the United states, including in Mississippi, which started this case that went to the Supreme court, there is no government intervention at all in your approval to have an abortion. If you're past fifteen weeks and meet the criteria, your abortion is none of the government's business. That is significantly more progressive than Europe, and any other take is not in good faith. > Ron DeSantis signed a law banning abortion after 15 weeks "without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking. You are deliberately misrepresenting the law and what I said about it. Your own article says: > The bill, which goes into effect July 1, does allow exemptions in cases where a pregnancy is "serious risk" to the mother or a fatal fetal abnormality is detected if two physicians confirm the diagnosis in writing. And Germany has no automatic exception for rape after fifteen weeks. It's up to the government. There is no government involvement in getting abortion approval in Florida. That makes florida more progressive. In fact, in Germany, abortion is illegal at all stages, just merely decriminalized. So again, Florida et al are more progressive. I don't understand why we have to do this pointless thing where we just pretend America is less libertine than all of Europe. In fact in Germany, their courts have ruled that unborn fetuses are innately entitled to human rights. The only reason abortion is allowed is because the courts have said it's okay for the legislature to not punish this kind of murder (that's what the German courts say it is, not my opinion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Germany