5 ms·

Is it? I've never heard a person introduce themselves as "woman". I've heard people identify themselves with their pronouns plenty of times. In fact, given the

Is it? I've never heard a person introduce themselves as "woman". I've heard people identify themselves with their pronouns plenty of times. In fact, given the links, literally all I see from eevee is their preferred pronouns, not "woman". I don't see anyone even calling out that she's trans (is she?), just correcting a misconception from the original comment that she uses he/him pronouns. Those particular pronouns may imply being a woman (I don't know enough to venture an opinion there; certainly I've seen people use combinations of pronouns such as "she/them" that don't make such an implication straightforward), but calling out the pronouns she uses to identify herself seems like a perfectly natural response to correct someone using the wrong pronouns, and not some sort of 'gotcha' to differentiate someone being trans (doubly when it's not at all apparent she's trans), especially when the person in question...identified themselves with those pronouns.

morelisp 4y ago
wollsmoth 4y ago
>calling out the pronouns she uses to identify herself seems like a perfectly natural response to correct someone using the wrong pronouns I feel like this pronouns thing started up in just the past few years. To me it seems more natural to say someone is a man/woman. If someone doesn't fit into one of those boxes then I think it makes sense to clarify the preferred pronouns.
- lostcolony 4y ago
  >> If someone doesn't fit into one of those boxes That's kind of the point of using them though. The goal is to -stop- saying "you either fit into this gender binary, or you are 'other'". It's kinda like normalizing the use of "partner" instead of "husband/wife" even for the straight married people; it helps normalize relationships that fall outside of monogamous, state recognized marriage, and doesn't force gender definitions (what if you're in a committed relationship, or married, to an NB person?) or force releasing sexuality just to indicate you're in a relationship (i.e., the person maybe doesn't want the fact they're gay to come up in this setting). Providing your own pronouns, even if you're cisgendered, is a form of allyship; you're normalizing it, and helping create space for those whose pronouns don't match how they present to provide theirs.
  - chimchiminey 4y ago
    - morelisp 4y ago
  - wollsmoth 4y ago
    Yeah I think I understand the push towards that. I'm saying it's not really a "normal" thing. I live in a pretty liberal area and have yet to hear someone announce their pronouns. I sometimes see it listed in someone's slack or twitter bio or something though. Generally we're just running on context clues and stuff.
    - lostcolony 4y ago
      It's definitely not normalized the way Mr/Mrs/Miss(/Ms) is, agreed. But that's the goal, and the desired outcome, and there are definitely places where it has seen heavy adoption and normalization. Just not super widespread (yet). But that said, what is super normalized is referring to others by their pronouns. "Becky? Oh she's..." etc. Providing pronouns in a place you don't need them avoids awkwardness, mislabeling, and normalizes it to where it's safe to ask for your preferred ones. I.e., "Hi, I'm Becky; my pronouns are she/her" makes it safe for those whose gender doesn't match what they present (or is ambiguous) to clarify how they wish to be identified, and is easy to roll with even for those who "aren't woke" or whathaveyou, whereas "Hi, I'm Becky; I'm a woman" would have no beneficial effect (it doesn't break the binary, since "non-binary" is still calling out the otherness from what is expected, and it also invites challenge by those against transness, i.e., exactly what we see GOP bills doing, demanding examination of a girl's privates and etc), and would likely cause you to be stared at like you're an alien for most situations.
      - fihlkki 4y ago
        Non-binary only makes any sense in a society where men and women are defined by cultural notions of masculinity and femininity, rather than by sex. It's one step further down the line from men and women being expected to behave in what are considered, respectively, masculine and feminine ways - the typical conservative viewpoint. I find it quite bizarre that this is regarded as a progressive stance. It's like they've internalized the conservative view and come up with entirely new categories to work around it. When the sensible thing would have been to just reject the idea of gender stereotyping entirely.

morelisp 4y ago

wollsmoth 4y ago

>calling out the pronouns she uses to identify herself seems like a perfectly natural response to correct someone using the wrong pronouns I feel like this pronouns thing started up in just the past few years. To me it seems more natural to say someone is a man/woman. If someone doesn't fit into one of those boxes then I think it makes sense to clarify the preferred pronouns.

lostcolony 4y ago
>> If someone doesn't fit into one of those boxes That's kind of the point of using them though. The goal is to -stop- saying "you either fit into this gender binary, or you are 'other'". It's kinda like normalizing the use of "partner" instead of "husband/wife" even for the straight married people; it helps normalize relationships that fall outside of monogamous, state recognized marriage, and doesn't force gender definitions (what if you're in a committed relationship, or married, to an NB person?) or force releasing sexuality just to indicate you're in a relationship (i.e., the person maybe doesn't want the fact they're gay to come up in this setting). Providing your own pronouns, even if you're cisgendered, is a form of allyship; you're normalizing it, and helping create space for those whose pronouns don't match how they present to provide theirs.
- chimchiminey 4y ago
  - morelisp 4y ago
- wollsmoth 4y ago
  Yeah I think I understand the push towards that. I'm saying it's not really a "normal" thing. I live in a pretty liberal area and have yet to hear someone announce their pronouns. I sometimes see it listed in someone's slack or twitter bio or something though. Generally we're just running on context clues and stuff.
  - lostcolony 4y ago
    It's definitely not normalized the way Mr/Mrs/Miss(/Ms) is, agreed. But that's the goal, and the desired outcome, and there are definitely places where it has seen heavy adoption and normalization. Just not super widespread (yet). But that said, what is super normalized is referring to others by their pronouns. "Becky? Oh she's..." etc. Providing pronouns in a place you don't need them avoids awkwardness, mislabeling, and normalizes it to where it's safe to ask for your preferred ones. I.e., "Hi, I'm Becky; my pronouns are she/her" makes it safe for those whose gender doesn't match what they present (or is ambiguous) to clarify how they wish to be identified, and is easy to roll with even for those who "aren't woke" or whathaveyou, whereas "Hi, I'm Becky; I'm a woman" would have no beneficial effect (it doesn't break the binary, since "non-binary" is still calling out the otherness from what is expected, and it also invites challenge by those against transness, i.e., exactly what we see GOP bills doing, demanding examination of a girl's privates and etc), and would likely cause you to be stared at like you're an alien for most situations.
    - fihlkki 4y ago
      Non-binary only makes any sense in a society where men and women are defined by cultural notions of masculinity and femininity, rather than by sex. It's one step further down the line from men and women being expected to behave in what are considered, respectively, masculine and feminine ways - the typical conservative viewpoint. I find it quite bizarre that this is regarded as a progressive stance. It's like they've internalized the conservative view and come up with entirely new categories to work around it. When the sensible thing would have been to just reject the idea of gender stereotyping entirely.