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How clever. If we're being maximally pedantic, not paying the fine could be a different crime, and the fine could be structured such that it is impossible to pa

How clever. If we're being maximally pedantic, not paying the fine could be a different crime, and the fine could be structured such that it is impossible to pay off before the taxes. Or it's just all part of the fine. Whatever. > if you never really go to prison Yeah, I didn't say "never".

vel0city 4y ago
The idea that started this was: > a simple question: did they ruin anyone's life? If no, the system shouldn't ruin their lives either. So not paying the fine being a separate crime doesn't really matter. The rubrik proposed is "is it ruining someone's life" which you'd have a hard time pointing to any particular individual directly harmed by someone not paying a fine. So then why would it be OK to jail someone for not paying the fine levied on not paying their taxes, but its not OK to jail someone for deliberately not paying their taxes? Both instances have the same theoretical victim of all people who receive benefit from the government. It seems to me if you're willing to jail someone for not paying fines you should really be fine with jailing someone for willfully not paying their taxes. Its ultimately the same theoretical victim having the same theoretical harm done to them, less potential revenue for the state to do its thing.
- guitarbill 4y ago
  > So then why would it be OK to jail someone for not paying the fine levied on not paying their taxes, but its not OK to jail someone for deliberately not paying their taxes? Putting people in prison when other remedies exist is not cost-effective. Unless you run inhumane, hell-hole prisons (not saying the UK ones are great, but there's worse). Eventually, yes, prison is the last option (again, in the UK). So is putting an IPTV pirate in prison for 14 years a good solution? Just from a tax-payer perspective, that seems dumb to me. Similarly, is putting a tax evader in prison a good solution? Not initially, no. Separately, we can also ask whether it's just for an IPTV pirate to get a higher prison sentence than e.g. most of the perpetrators in the Rochdale child sex abuse ring. For one of these crimes, the wronged party can be made "whole" with money. For the other, not so much. I believe this is what OP is driving at.

vel0city 4y ago

The idea that started this was: > a simple question: did they ruin anyone's life? If no, the system shouldn't ruin their lives either. So not paying the fine being a separate crime doesn't really matter. The rubrik proposed is "is it ruining someone's life" which you'd have a hard time pointing to any particular individual directly harmed by someone not paying a fine. So then why would it be OK to jail someone for not paying the fine levied on not paying their taxes, but its not OK to jail someone for deliberately not paying their taxes? Both instances have the same theoretical victim of all people who receive benefit from the government. It seems to me if you're willing to jail someone for not paying fines you should really be fine with jailing someone for willfully not paying their taxes. Its ultimately the same theoretical victim having the same theoretical harm done to them, less potential revenue for the state to do its thing.

guitarbill 4y ago
> So then why would it be OK to jail someone for not paying the fine levied on not paying their taxes, but its not OK to jail someone for deliberately not paying their taxes? Putting people in prison when other remedies exist is not cost-effective. Unless you run inhumane, hell-hole prisons (not saying the UK ones are great, but there's worse). Eventually, yes, prison is the last option (again, in the UK). So is putting an IPTV pirate in prison for 14 years a good solution? Just from a tax-payer perspective, that seems dumb to me. Similarly, is putting a tax evader in prison a good solution? Not initially, no. Separately, we can also ask whether it's just for an IPTV pirate to get a higher prison sentence than e.g. most of the perpetrators in the Rochdale child sex abuse ring. For one of these crimes, the wronged party can be made "whole" with money. For the other, not so much. I believe this is what OP is driving at.