5 ms·

To be perfectly fair, as someone who had a suicide attempt in SF and was held under a 5150 at SF general, what came after the attempt was much, much, much worse

To be perfectly fair, as someone who had a suicide attempt in SF and was held under a 5150 at SF general, what came after the attempt was much, much, much worse than the attempt itself. Inpatient mental health treatment and healthcare in SF in general is abysmal and horrifying. Myself, along with what felt like half of the homeless population in SF, was put in a large gymnasium filled to the brim and given a 1/2" foam cot for 72 hours with no water, food, treatment, access to a phone, or access to counsel. It was much worse than being arrested, especially for someone who had just suffered a mental break. I made two mental notes. One, if I ever got to that point again, not to fail, and two, if I did try, definitely not to call 911. They aren't your friends. The movie depiction of gently waking up in a sunshine filled private hospital room with your family there waiting for you to support you after a failed suicide attempt could not possibly be further from the truth. You wake up in literal HELL ON EARTH and immediately wish you had succeeded and regret calling 911.

slibhb 4y ago
> I made two mental notes. One, if I ever got to that point again, not to fail, and two, if I did try, definitely not to call 911. They aren't your friends. This is exactly the kind of progressive-libertarianism the article is arguing against. As if we should tolerate suicides to avoid infringing on the rights of the suicidal. And of course emergency services aren't your friends. They're supposed to prevent you from harm not be nice to you. It would be lovely if they could do both but interacting with unwell, pyschotic, sometimes violent people takes a major toll. There aren't many people who can do those jobs without compartmentalizing their emotions.
- gsibble 4y ago
  Well, hear me and hear me well, the movie depiction of waking up in a clean hospital room after a failed suicide attempt with your family there to support you is basically the polar opposite of reality. You wake up in HELL and immediately regret your decision to call 911.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  > They're supposed to prevent you from harm not be nice to you. Treating someone with mental illness effectively requires compassion. If being put on a psychiatric hold is a unnecessarily traumatic experience, you prevent some short term harm while causing long term damage. Not only do you add additional trauma that complicates recovery but you teach those in need of help to hide their suffering as long as possible. > There aren't many people who can do those jobs without compartmentalizing their emotions. So let's pay them well and not overwork them while holding to high standards for how they treat the vulnerable people in their care. > This is exactly the kind of progressive-libertarianism the article is arguing against. As if we should tolerate suicides to avoid infringing on the rights of the suicidal. Not only are you misconstruing the point of the comment you are replying to, your response lacks a single drop of empathy for those affected, including the commentor who shared a painful and personal experience. Please try to practice more empathy, it might help you think of better solutions rather than just defending decades-old failed policies that created our current crisis.
  - gsibble 4y ago
    Thank you.
  - slibhb 4y ago
    By demanding a mental health system that keeps people from harm while being perfectly compassionate, you're preferring the utopian social ideal to the possible. It's just too much to ask of doctors, nurses, and orderlies to be compassionate all the time. These people are human beings. Mush-brained calls for empathy are a dime a dozen and they lead to failed policies, in SF and elsewhere.
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      > By demanding a mental health system that keeps people from harm while being perfectly compassionate, you're preferring the utopian social ideal to the possible. Nowhere did I demand perfection, only improvement. Refusing to even try to improve because perfection is impossible is irrational. > It's just too much to ask of doctors, nurses, and orderlies to be compassionate all the time. These people are human beings. That does not mean that we shouldn't find ways to improve the system to allow more compassion to be displayed. The hours and workloads we place on these workers are a significant contributing factor. We have a large problem with burnout, especially among our lower tier healthcare providers. > Mush-brained calls for empathy are a dime a dozen and they lead to failed policies, in SF and elsewhere. Name calling isn't a very effective communication strategy and won't hide the fact that your argument is based on falsehoods and misrepresentation. The ”failed policies” are the ones that created our drug and homelessness crises over that last several decades. The war on drugs is a failed policy, busing homeless is a failed policy, jailing drug addicts is a failed policy. That isn't to say that the new policies don't have problems and won't fail, but we need better options that just sticking with the failed policies that created the problem in the first place.

slibhb 4y ago

> I made two mental notes. One, if I ever got to that point again, not to fail, and two, if I did try, definitely not to call 911. They aren't your friends. This is exactly the kind of progressive-libertarianism the article is arguing against. As if we should tolerate suicides to avoid infringing on the rights of the suicidal. And of course emergency services aren't your friends. They're supposed to prevent you from harm not be nice to you. It would be lovely if they could do both but interacting with unwell, pyschotic, sometimes violent people takes a major toll. There aren't many people who can do those jobs without compartmentalizing their emotions.

gsibble 4y ago
Well, hear me and hear me well, the movie depiction of waking up in a clean hospital room after a failed suicide attempt with your family there to support you is basically the polar opposite of reality. You wake up in HELL and immediately regret your decision to call 911.
shkkmo 4y ago
> They're supposed to prevent you from harm not be nice to you. Treating someone with mental illness effectively requires compassion. If being put on a psychiatric hold is a unnecessarily traumatic experience, you prevent some short term harm while causing long term damage. Not only do you add additional trauma that complicates recovery but you teach those in need of help to hide their suffering as long as possible. > There aren't many people who can do those jobs without compartmentalizing their emotions. So let's pay them well and not overwork them while holding to high standards for how they treat the vulnerable people in their care. > This is exactly the kind of progressive-libertarianism the article is arguing against. As if we should tolerate suicides to avoid infringing on the rights of the suicidal. Not only are you misconstruing the point of the comment you are replying to, your response lacks a single drop of empathy for those affected, including the commentor who shared a painful and personal experience. Please try to practice more empathy, it might help you think of better solutions rather than just defending decades-old failed policies that created our current crisis.
- gsibble 4y ago
  Thank you.
- slibhb 4y ago
  By demanding a mental health system that keeps people from harm while being perfectly compassionate, you're preferring the utopian social ideal to the possible. It's just too much to ask of doctors, nurses, and orderlies to be compassionate all the time. These people are human beings. Mush-brained calls for empathy are a dime a dozen and they lead to failed policies, in SF and elsewhere.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    > By demanding a mental health system that keeps people from harm while being perfectly compassionate, you're preferring the utopian social ideal to the possible. Nowhere did I demand perfection, only improvement. Refusing to even try to improve because perfection is impossible is irrational. > It's just too much to ask of doctors, nurses, and orderlies to be compassionate all the time. These people are human beings. That does not mean that we shouldn't find ways to improve the system to allow more compassion to be displayed. The hours and workloads we place on these workers are a significant contributing factor. We have a large problem with burnout, especially among our lower tier healthcare providers. > Mush-brained calls for empathy are a dime a dozen and they lead to failed policies, in SF and elsewhere. Name calling isn't a very effective communication strategy and won't hide the fact that your argument is based on falsehoods and misrepresentation. The ”failed policies” are the ones that created our drug and homelessness crises over that last several decades. The war on drugs is a failed policy, busing homeless is a failed policy, jailing drug addicts is a failed policy. That isn't to say that the new policies don't have problems and won't fail, but we need better options that just sticking with the failed policies that created the problem in the first place.