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Unionize software would be a complete disaster. Not because unions are always bad, but because good contracts would be impossible to write and impossible to mai

Unionize software would be a complete disaster. Not because unions are always bad, but because good contracts would be impossible to write and impossible to maintain. In a trucker's union both sides can somewhat agree on standards like miles driven, cargo weight. With software a login screen could take anywhere between 30 minutes to 10,000 hours to build depending on integrations, scale, testing, language support, competency of the team, clean requirements from management. You will quickly run into disagreements on who is at fault for a project running over schedule and have to litigate over the contract.

tyingq 4y ago
>because good contracts would be impossible to write and impossible to maintain Airline pilots have notoriously complicated union contracts, but it seems to work for them. Edit: An example...~500 pages: https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=43832 https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.as... Police unions might be a good counter example for your idea that it might get too complicated. There's no contract clauses there related to the quality of their work, crime rates, etc.
- gitfan86 4y ago
  Police Unions are a good example of contracts being a disaster for the customer "tax payer".
  - tyingq 4y ago
    Yeah, I wasn't saying they were good for society. But they do seem to be good for individual police officers.
    - gitfan86 4y ago
      Yes, the downside for the average person is that they cannot get any of those jobs because the union only hires via corruption or nepotism
  - justapassenger 4y ago
    Their “customers” deal with monopoly, that you’ll be imprisoned for life or killed if you’d like to challenge it. There’s 0 value in comparing police to tech workers.
    - tyingq 4y ago
      >There’s 0 value in comparing police to tech workers. It's a little more nuanced than that. The point was that a union doesn't necessarily need to please the company/agency, so contractual language around project completion, etc, may not be needed. Company pleasing language/rules/etc in a union contract would only be there because the union didn't have leverage for it not to be.
TrackerFF 4y ago
Dunno, I've worked twice as a unionized worker - and both times the unions were very hidden and non-intrusive. The only times they became visible, were when: 1) Discussions around raise. 2) Discussions around working hours and workplace conditions. 3) Stuff like insurance. So, all in all a very positive experience. And I worked in a white-collar profession both times. (Should be mentioned that I lived in Scandinavia, where unions are the standard - and very integrated)

tyingq 4y ago

>because good contracts would be impossible to write and impossible to maintain Airline pilots have notoriously complicated union contracts, but it seems to work for them. Edit: An example...~500 pages: https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=43832 https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.as... Police unions might be a good counter example for your idea that it might get too complicated. There's no contract clauses there related to the quality of their work, crime rates, etc.

gitfan86 4y ago
Police Unions are a good example of contracts being a disaster for the customer "tax payer".
- tyingq 4y ago
  Yeah, I wasn't saying they were good for society. But they do seem to be good for individual police officers.
  - gitfan86 4y ago
    Yes, the downside for the average person is that they cannot get any of those jobs because the union only hires via corruption or nepotism
- justapassenger 4y ago
  Their “customers” deal with monopoly, that you’ll be imprisoned for life or killed if you’d like to challenge it. There’s 0 value in comparing police to tech workers.
  - tyingq 4y ago
    >There’s 0 value in comparing police to tech workers. It's a little more nuanced than that. The point was that a union doesn't necessarily need to please the company/agency, so contractual language around project completion, etc, may not be needed. Company pleasing language/rules/etc in a union contract would only be there because the union didn't have leverage for it not to be.

TrackerFF 4y ago

Dunno, I've worked twice as a unionized worker - and both times the unions were very hidden and non-intrusive. The only times they became visible, were when: 1) Discussions around raise. 2) Discussions around working hours and workplace conditions. 3) Stuff like insurance. So, all in all a very positive experience. And I worked in a white-collar profession both times. (Should be mentioned that I lived in Scandinavia, where unions are the standard - and very integrated)