4 ms·

Whatever decision you make, don't quit voluntarily - this is a way to get them out of paying unemployment or other benefits; Tesla is trying to do layoffs witho

Whatever decision you make, don't quit voluntarily - this is a way to get them out of paying unemployment or other benefits; Tesla is trying to do layoffs without satisfying the legal obligations of layoffs by tricking people into voluntarily quitting. As others have also suggested, talking to an employment lawyer who can do a close reading of your contract would be Useful in this case too.

izzydata 4y ago
Isn't the point of their tactic that they are going to consider it you quitting if you don't show up to work in person? So it will be voluntarily quitting whether you voluntarily quit or not. Still, probably better to force them to pay you as long as it takes them to figure things out.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- anaisbetts 4y ago
  They can "consider" it whatever they want, but it doesn't matter. We have established labor law about what is considered voluntarily resignation vs constructive dismissal / being fired / being laid off.
bumby 4y ago
I'm curious how the email about "not showing up to the office would be interpreted as a resignation" plays into the layoff scenario. Is there any grounds that could realistically be considered a notice of resignation or is it just a blow-hard email?
- dragontamer 4y ago
  Presumably, the original-poster here should keep working responsibly. He won't show up to the office in August, but promises to do so by January. Until then, he keeps programming as he always has. If they want to fire him, that's fine, let them fire him so that he gets the full severance package (unemployment benefits, etc. etc.)
- tokai 4y ago
  My contract specify how a resignation is to be done before it is binding (in writing). It that not normal in the states?
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    No it's not. You can be fired for not going to work or doing your job. Your company can change your job roles and responsibilities
    - tokai 4y ago
      Yes ofc you can be fired. That not the question. It is if your employer can tell you what they will take as an resignation. For me only a written notice will count. Any employer can tell me that they fire me if I don't show up, they would still have to write me an official firing when I don't show. Being fired is not resigning tho. Non of this has anything nothing to do with at-will or not.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I think in this case I it is a difference without a distinction. " take as an resignation" means the company initiates your resignation paperwork. The employee will often need to sign a statement of resignation (Termination by mutual agreement), but the employer can absolutely initiate and send them the paperwork. If you refuse, the resignation paperwork goes away and is replaced with firing paperwork, which you are not required to sign. Here is some additional info: https://swartz-legal.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-separation-from-employment/#:~:text=Involuntary%20termination,work%20contract%20or%20temporary%20employment https://swartz-legal.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-sep...
  - efficax 4y ago
    most employment in the US is "at will" and has no real contractual obligations. you can quit at any time (and be fired at any time), for any reason. severance is essentially a benefit, completely optional, although it is required by law in some mass layoff situations regardless of at-will employment.
- tiahura 4y ago
  deleted
  - frumper 4y ago
    You are eligible for unemployment in California if your employer significantly changes the terms of work, that includes changing locations to an unreasonable commute.
  - jamincan 4y ago
    In most places, moving your place of employment such that it requires relocation would be considered constructive dismissal and therefore effectively termination.
Melting_Harps 4y ago
> Whatever decision you make, don't quit voluntarily - this is a way to get them out of paying unemployment or other benefits; Tesla is trying to do layoffs without satisfying the legal obligations of layoffs by tricking people into voluntarily quitting. This, at worst you can claim UI while you look for a new role if they terminate your contract and lay you off; I think Elon just revealed his hand to anyone who thinks he is some sort of benevolent environmentalist playing the VC game--he is a tech oligarch and just like all of them will use whatever talking point to serve and ensure he achieves his end. I'm sure there are reasons that are not clear to those of us outside of Tesla Execs for why they are enforcing this, my guess is real estate losses are starting to take a toll as the stock price keeps dropping, but from what I'm hearing is that they are still busing people in from Woodland Park to Fremont because of the lack of parking spots in Fremont which has been a problem since Model 3 deployment, what exactly are they trying to achieve here? Not just that, but just the unnecessary use of fossil fuels to ensure people commute into the E. Bay is so absurd especially for a company who's very mission statement is to transition out of it. And if they really felt this was a mission critical thing then offer significant employee discounts on used/old Tesla inventory and offer free super charger access to offset the energy impacts that this will incur. I've always said and commended that Elon is more PT Barnum than he is Edison or Telsa, and it's clear that this move is a strategic one just like when they laid of ~14% of the entire work force during the disastrous Model 3 launch. This is also why I think that unionizing Tesla was a mistake during Model 3 but I have come to the realization that after the horrid safety record and intimidation tactics that have been in practice ever since for those who have been trying to unionize that it likely will have to happen. It's crazy because in Giga-Shanghai, during the lockdowns no less, he was able to get people to show up and work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week [0]. I fear his megalomania has really gotten the best of him and he thinks that he can do this in California, too. Texas will probably let him and I fully anticipate that Giga Austin will probably be the new HQ where they will replicate the assembly lines of S/X/3/Y they built in Fremont which will likely be eventually phased out of vehicle production as a result of favourable legislation in TX because he can define what 'just cause' terminations are since it's an at-will State and Abbot is a total political-whore: see NRA stance. I was onboard with Tesla's mission during COVID and supported Fremont remaining open during all that drama, but something went really wrong when Giga Shanghai started to set the new benchmark and US standards on labour were now somehow supposed to reflect what is essentially slave labour based working conditions. 0: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga-shanghai-housing-second-shift-details/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga-shanghai-housing-second...

izzydata 4y ago

Isn't the point of their tactic that they are going to consider it you quitting if you don't show up to work in person? So it will be voluntarily quitting whether you voluntarily quit or not. Still, probably better to force them to pay you as long as it takes them to figure things out.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
anaisbetts 4y ago
They can "consider" it whatever they want, but it doesn't matter. We have established labor law about what is considered voluntarily resignation vs constructive dismissal / being fired / being laid off.

bumby 4y ago

I'm curious how the email about "not showing up to the office would be interpreted as a resignation" plays into the layoff scenario. Is there any grounds that could realistically be considered a notice of resignation or is it just a blow-hard email?

dragontamer 4y ago
Presumably, the original-poster here should keep working responsibly. He won't show up to the office in August, but promises to do so by January. Until then, he keeps programming as he always has. If they want to fire him, that's fine, let them fire him so that he gets the full severance package (unemployment benefits, etc. etc.)
tokai 4y ago
My contract specify how a resignation is to be done before it is binding (in writing). It that not normal in the states?
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  No it's not. You can be fired for not going to work or doing your job. Your company can change your job roles and responsibilities
  - tokai 4y ago
    Yes ofc you can be fired. That not the question. It is if your employer can tell you what they will take as an resignation. For me only a written notice will count. Any employer can tell me that they fire me if I don't show up, they would still have to write me an official firing when I don't show. Being fired is not resigning tho. Non of this has anything nothing to do with at-will or not.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      I think in this case I it is a difference without a distinction. " take as an resignation" means the company initiates your resignation paperwork. The employee will often need to sign a statement of resignation (Termination by mutual agreement), but the employer can absolutely initiate and send them the paperwork. If you refuse, the resignation paperwork goes away and is replaced with firing paperwork, which you are not required to sign. Here is some additional info: https://swartz-legal.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-separation-from-employment/#:~:text=Involuntary%20termination,work%20contract%20or%20temporary%20employment https://swartz-legal.com/what-are-the-different-types-of-sep...
- efficax 4y ago
  most employment in the US is "at will" and has no real contractual obligations. you can quit at any time (and be fired at any time), for any reason. severance is essentially a benefit, completely optional, although it is required by law in some mass layoff situations regardless of at-will employment.
tiahura 4y ago
deleted
- frumper 4y ago
  You are eligible for unemployment in California if your employer significantly changes the terms of work, that includes changing locations to an unreasonable commute.
- jamincan 4y ago
  In most places, moving your place of employment such that it requires relocation would be considered constructive dismissal and therefore effectively termination.

Melting_Harps 4y ago

> Whatever decision you make, don't quit voluntarily - this is a way to get them out of paying unemployment or other benefits; Tesla is trying to do layoffs without satisfying the legal obligations of layoffs by tricking people into voluntarily quitting. This, at worst you can claim UI while you look for a new role if they terminate your contract and lay you off; I think Elon just revealed his hand to anyone who thinks he is some sort of benevolent environmentalist playing the VC game--he is a tech oligarch and just like all of them will use whatever talking point to serve and ensure he achieves his end. I'm sure there are reasons that are not clear to those of us outside of Tesla Execs for why they are enforcing this, my guess is real estate losses are starting to take a toll as the stock price keeps dropping, but from what I'm hearing is that they are still busing people in from Woodland Park to Fremont because of the lack of parking spots in Fremont which has been a problem since Model 3 deployment, what exactly are they trying to achieve here? Not just that, but just the unnecessary use of fossil fuels to ensure people commute into the E. Bay is so absurd especially for a company who's very mission statement is to transition out of it. And if they really felt this was a mission critical thing then offer significant employee discounts on used/old Tesla inventory and offer free super charger access to offset the energy impacts that this will incur. I've always said and commended that Elon is more PT Barnum than he is Edison or Telsa, and it's clear that this move is a strategic one just like when they laid of ~14% of the entire work force during the disastrous Model 3 launch. This is also why I think that unionizing Tesla was a mistake during Model 3 but I have come to the realization that after the horrid safety record and intimidation tactics that have been in practice ever since for those who have been trying to unionize that it likely will have to happen. It's crazy because in Giga-Shanghai, during the lockdowns no less, he was able to get people to show up and work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week [0]. I fear his megalomania has really gotten the best of him and he thinks that he can do this in California, too. Texas will probably let him and I fully anticipate that Giga Austin will probably be the new HQ where they will replicate the assembly lines of S/X/3/Y they built in Fremont which will likely be eventually phased out of vehicle production as a result of favourable legislation in TX because he can define what 'just cause' terminations are since it's an at-will State and Abbot is a total political-whore: see NRA stance. I was onboard with Tesla's mission during COVID and supported Fremont remaining open during all that drama, but something went really wrong when Giga Shanghai started to set the new benchmark and US standards on labour were now somehow supposed to reflect what is essentially slave labour based working conditions. 0: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga-shanghai-housing-second-shift-details/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga-shanghai-housing-second...