5 ms·

The solution is universal pre-k, socialized medicine, and massive federal investment in K-12 schooling. By the time you've reached the justice system, it's too

The solution is universal pre-k, socialized medicine, and massive federal investment in K-12 schooling. By the time you've reached the justice system, it's too late.

zozbot234 4y ago
> massive federal investment in K-12 schooling Because we aren't spending enough on K-12 education already? Throwing good money after bad is terrible policy. (Medicine has lots of issues too, but it's an entirely separate issue from criminal justice.)
- ramesh31 4y ago
  >Because we aren't spending enough on K-12 education already? At the federal level? Not really. The Department of Education is something like less than 1% of the federal budget. Furthermore the problem comes down to how schools are actually funded. In the US, it's almost entirely through local property taxes. Which means that racial and socioeconomic segregation cause children to be doomed to an underfunded school district, perpetuating the cycle.
  - nostromo 4y ago
    It doesn’t matter where the budget comes from. The US funds primary education very well - as well as many of our European counterparts (despite our worse outcomes).
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- throwingrocks 4y ago
  If you think schools don't have enough money, you're not looking hard enough.
  - ramesh31 4y ago
    >If you think schools don't have enough money, you're not looking hard enough. Some schools do. White schools. Take a look at any high school in the south side of Chicago and tell me they are doing just fine.
    - rhino369 4y ago
      Lincoln Park High doesn't get more funding than those south side schools.
- JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
  I mean, no we aren’t spending enough on it haha. Isn’t that apparent? https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... You can see in the inflation-adjusted graph it has been flat except for after Covid. If you aren’t getting the result you want, you will have to increase inflation-adjusted spending to see a change. > In the United States, education spending falls short of benchmarks set by international organizations such as UNESCO, of which the U.S. is a member. The nation puts 11.6% of public funding toward education, well below the international standard 15.00%.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    US reading, Math and Science scores have been flat since 1970 while inflation adjusted spending per student is up more than 200%. Spending night be misallocated but a bigger budget won’t do anything by itself. There are no big, obvious wins out there. https://www.cato.org/blog/addressing-critics-purportedly-no-good-very-bad-chart https://www.cato.org/blog/addressing-critics-purportedly-no-...
    - JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
      Oh if we are talking since the 1970's like most issues, I've got a site for you. That's when the money printing backed by nothing started. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ >In August 1971, Nixon severed the direct convertibility of U.S. dollars into gold.
dahfizz 4y ago
We already spend more money on K-12 schooling than nearly all European countries[1]. Throwing more money at a problem is very rarely the best solution. [1] https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country?tid=114 https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-exp...
- salawat 4y ago
  And yet... That's 90% of what legislation is all about.
  - SilasX 4y ago
    Legislation specifies more than "the amount of money allocated" to a problem.
rhino369 4y ago
Well funded schools in bad areas just churn out bad students. There is no easy solution to crime.
car_analogy 4y ago
> massive federal investment in K-12 schooling Only 3 countries in the world spend more per pupil than the US: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Education/Spending-per-primary-school-student https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Education/Sp... Furthermore, racial differences in per-pupil funding are negligible, with Black and Latinx funding slightly exceeding White: on average, both Black and Latinx total per pupil expenditures exceed White total per pupil expenditures by $229.53 and $126.15, respectively - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2332858419872445 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23328584198724...
- Bud 4y ago
  I imagine those figures fail to exclude spending by the rich on private schools for rich kids. That spending obviously doesn't do anything to help 99% of students. Anyway, we should be 1st. Not 4th. We're the richest country.
  - car_analogy 4y ago
    > I imagine those figures fail to exclude spending by the rich on private schools for rich kids. Blacks are underrepresented among the rich, so if rich private school spending was relatively significant, one would expect the Black per-pupil spending to be the lowest, not the highest.
- swearwolf 4y ago
  I suspect we spend so much per pupil because overall we spend so little on the rest of society. A school in a neighborhood with a lot of generational poverty is going to have a lot of social problems. Those social problems are going to negatively impact the lives of students, who will then bring those problems to the school with them. Dealing with those problems requires additional staff, which require additional salary.

The solution is universal pre-k, socialized medicine, and massive federal investment in K-12 schooling. By the time you've reached the justice system, it's too late.

zozbot234 4y ago

> massive federal investment in K-12 schooling Because we aren't spending enough on K-12 education already? Throwing good money after bad is terrible policy. (Medicine has lots of issues too, but it's an entirely separate issue from criminal justice.)

ramesh31 4y ago
>Because we aren't spending enough on K-12 education already? At the federal level? Not really. The Department of Education is something like less than 1% of the federal budget. Furthermore the problem comes down to how schools are actually funded. In the US, it's almost entirely through local property taxes. Which means that racial and socioeconomic segregation cause children to be doomed to an underfunded school district, perpetuating the cycle.
- nostromo 4y ago
  It doesn’t matter where the budget comes from. The US funds primary education very well - as well as many of our European counterparts (despite our worse outcomes).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
throwingrocks 4y ago
If you think schools don't have enough money, you're not looking hard enough.
- ramesh31 4y ago
  >If you think schools don't have enough money, you're not looking hard enough. Some schools do. White schools. Take a look at any high school in the south side of Chicago and tell me they are doing just fine.
  - rhino369 4y ago
    Lincoln Park High doesn't get more funding than those south side schools.
JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
I mean, no we aren’t spending enough on it haha. Isn’t that apparent? https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... You can see in the inflation-adjusted graph it has been flat except for after Covid. If you aren’t getting the result you want, you will have to increase inflation-adjusted spending to see a change. > In the United States, education spending falls short of benchmarks set by international organizations such as UNESCO, of which the U.S. is a member. The nation puts 11.6% of public funding toward education, well below the international standard 15.00%.
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  US reading, Math and Science scores have been flat since 1970 while inflation adjusted spending per student is up more than 200%. Spending night be misallocated but a bigger budget won’t do anything by itself. There are no big, obvious wins out there. https://www.cato.org/blog/addressing-critics-purportedly-no-good-very-bad-chart https://www.cato.org/blog/addressing-critics-purportedly-no-...
  - JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
    Oh if we are talking since the 1970's like most issues, I've got a site for you. That's when the money printing backed by nothing started. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ >In August 1971, Nixon severed the direct convertibility of U.S. dollars into gold.

dahfizz 4y ago

We already spend more money on K-12 schooling than nearly all European countries[1]. Throwing more money at a problem is very rarely the best solution. [1] https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country?tid=114 https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-exp...

salawat 4y ago
And yet... That's 90% of what legislation is all about.
- SilasX 4y ago
  Legislation specifies more than "the amount of money allocated" to a problem.

rhino369 4y ago

Well funded schools in bad areas just churn out bad students. There is no easy solution to crime.

car_analogy 4y ago

> massive federal investment in K-12 schooling Only 3 countries in the world spend more per pupil than the US: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Education/Spending-per-primary-school-student https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Education/Sp... Furthermore, racial differences in per-pupil funding are negligible, with Black and Latinx funding slightly exceeding White: on average, both Black and Latinx total per pupil expenditures exceed White total per pupil expenditures by $229.53 and $126.15, respectively - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2332858419872445 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23328584198724...

Bud 4y ago
I imagine those figures fail to exclude spending by the rich on private schools for rich kids. That spending obviously doesn't do anything to help 99% of students. Anyway, we should be 1st. Not 4th. We're the richest country.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  > I imagine those figures fail to exclude spending by the rich on private schools for rich kids. Blacks are underrepresented among the rich, so if rich private school spending was relatively significant, one would expect the Black per-pupil spending to be the lowest, not the highest.
swearwolf 4y ago
I suspect we spend so much per pupil because overall we spend so little on the rest of society. A school in a neighborhood with a lot of generational poverty is going to have a lot of social problems. Those social problems are going to negatively impact the lives of students, who will then bring those problems to the school with them. Dealing with those problems requires additional staff, which require additional salary.