7 ms·

For those that "read" via HN comments, it's worth emphasizing that this particular group of (3) pirates operated for over a decade and made >$5M selling pirated

by gnrlst 4y ago

For those that "read" via HN comments, it's worth emphasizing that this particular group of (3) pirates operated for over a decade and made >$5M selling pirated football rights for profit. I don't think prosecution is uncalled for here, regardless of how the sentence compares to that of more socially damaging crimes.

zerr 4y ago
So 166k per annum per person. As for the retailation, a simple question: did they ruin anyone's life? If no, the system shouldn't ruin their lives either.
- namdnay 4y ago
  > As for the retailation, a simple question: did they ruin anyone's life? If no, the system shouldn't ruin their lives either Following that logic, you shouldn't go to prison for tax dodging, it's not like one person not paying taxes is going to change anyone's life.
  - guitarbill 4y ago
    Well, depends on how much tax was dodged. But yeah? Having to pay back the tax plus a steep fine seems like a good solution for that one for less than some amount. Probably cheaper than sticking someone in prison, too. (Keeping in mind for the rich, a lot of tax dodging is legal, like non-dom status, so...)
    - vel0city 4y ago
      > Having to pay back the tax But, if you never really go to prison for not paying taxes because there isn't really a direct victim, why would you bother paying the back taxes or the fines levied? Like, if all that'll happen is they'll assess more fines, and the penalty for not paying the fines is they'll assess more fines, why bother paying any at all?
      - guitarbill 4y ago
        How clever. If we're being maximally pedantic, not paying the fine could be a different crime, and the fine could be structured such that it is impossible to pay off before the taxes. Or it's just all part of the fine. Whatever. > if you never really go to prison Yeah, I didn't say "never".
        vel0city 4y ago
        The idea that started this was: > a simple question: did they ruin anyone's life? If no, the system shouldn't ruin their lives either. So not paying the fine being a separate crime doesn't really matter. The rubrik proposed is "is it ruining someone's life" which you'd have a hard time pointing to any particular individual directly harmed by someone not paying a fine. So then why would it be OK to jail someone for not paying the fine levied on not paying their taxes, but its not OK to jail someone for deliberately not paying their taxes? Both instances have the same theoretical victim of all people who receive benefit from the government. It seems to me if you're willing to jail someone for not paying fines you should really be fine with jailing someone for willfully not paying their taxes. Its ultimately the same theoretical victim having the same theoretical harm done to them, less potential revenue for the state to do its thing.
        guitarbill 4y ago
        > So then why would it be OK to jail someone for not paying the fine levied on not paying their taxes, but its not OK to jail someone for deliberately not paying their taxes? Putting people in prison when other remedies exist is not cost-effective. Unless you run inhumane, hell-hole prisons (not saying the UK ones are great, but there's worse). Eventually, yes, prison is the last option (again, in the UK). So is putting an IPTV pirate in prison for 14 years a good solution? Just from a tax-payer perspective, that seems dumb to me. Similarly, is putting a tax evader in prison a good solution? Not initially, no. Separately, we can also ask whether it's just for an IPTV pirate to get a higher prison sentence than e.g. most of the perpetrators in the Rochdale child sex abuse ring. For one of these crimes, the wronged party can be made "whole" with money. For the other, not so much. I believe this is what OP is driving at.
  - danw1979 4y ago
    Correct. You should not go to prison for tax dodging.
crawfordcomeaux 4y ago
Capitalism puts all kinds of weird pressure on people. I don't think prosecution of capitalism is uncalled for here. Punishing people? That's literally unscientific and automatically socially damaging.
- JohnHaugeland 4y ago
  (this has literally nothing to do with capitalism)
  - crawfordcomeaux 4y ago
    Intellectual property rights and assessed damages has nothing to do with capitalism?

by gnrlst 4y ago

zerr 4y ago

So 166k per annum per person. As for the retailation, a simple question: did they ruin anyone's life? If no, the system shouldn't ruin their lives either.

namdnay 4y ago
> As for the retailation, a simple question: did they ruin anyone's life? If no, the system shouldn't ruin their lives either Following that logic, you shouldn't go to prison for tax dodging, it's not like one person not paying taxes is going to change anyone's life.
- guitarbill 4y ago
  Well, depends on how much tax was dodged. But yeah? Having to pay back the tax plus a steep fine seems like a good solution for that one for less than some amount. Probably cheaper than sticking someone in prison, too. (Keeping in mind for the rich, a lot of tax dodging is legal, like non-dom status, so...)
  - vel0city 4y ago
    > Having to pay back the tax But, if you never really go to prison for not paying taxes because there isn't really a direct victim, why would you bother paying the back taxes or the fines levied? Like, if all that'll happen is they'll assess more fines, and the penalty for not paying the fines is they'll assess more fines, why bother paying any at all?
    - guitarbill 4y ago
      How clever. If we're being maximally pedantic, not paying the fine could be a different crime, and the fine could be structured such that it is impossible to pay off before the taxes. Or it's just all part of the fine. Whatever. > if you never really go to prison Yeah, I didn't say "never".
      - vel0city 4y ago
        The idea that started this was: > a simple question: did they ruin anyone's life? If no, the system shouldn't ruin their lives either. So not paying the fine being a separate crime doesn't really matter. The rubrik proposed is "is it ruining someone's life" which you'd have a hard time pointing to any particular individual directly harmed by someone not paying a fine. So then why would it be OK to jail someone for not paying the fine levied on not paying their taxes, but its not OK to jail someone for deliberately not paying their taxes? Both instances have the same theoretical victim of all people who receive benefit from the government. It seems to me if you're willing to jail someone for not paying fines you should really be fine with jailing someone for willfully not paying their taxes. Its ultimately the same theoretical victim having the same theoretical harm done to them, less potential revenue for the state to do its thing.
        guitarbill 4y ago
        > So then why would it be OK to jail someone for not paying the fine levied on not paying their taxes, but its not OK to jail someone for deliberately not paying their taxes? Putting people in prison when other remedies exist is not cost-effective. Unless you run inhumane, hell-hole prisons (not saying the UK ones are great, but there's worse). Eventually, yes, prison is the last option (again, in the UK). So is putting an IPTV pirate in prison for 14 years a good solution? Just from a tax-payer perspective, that seems dumb to me. Similarly, is putting a tax evader in prison a good solution? Not initially, no. Separately, we can also ask whether it's just for an IPTV pirate to get a higher prison sentence than e.g. most of the perpetrators in the Rochdale child sex abuse ring. For one of these crimes, the wronged party can be made "whole" with money. For the other, not so much. I believe this is what OP is driving at.
- danw1979 4y ago
  Correct. You should not go to prison for tax dodging.

crawfordcomeaux 4y ago

Capitalism puts all kinds of weird pressure on people. I don't think prosecution of capitalism is uncalled for here. Punishing people? That's literally unscientific and automatically socially damaging.

JohnHaugeland 4y ago
(this has literally nothing to do with capitalism)
- crawfordcomeaux 4y ago
  Intellectual property rights and assessed damages has nothing to do with capitalism?