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(1) Then you don't have paid enough attention if you think that you need to kill millions for "actual" genocide. Or do you think we should wait until it becomes

(1) Then you don't have paid enough attention if you think that you need to kill millions for "actual" genocide. Or do you think we should wait until it becomes "actual" genocide until we intervene? Or should we attempt to stop it directly? There have been multiple warnings by people seriously committed for human rights, but most importantly, parliaments of all Baltic states, Poland and Canada have already declared Russia's actions in Ukraine to be genocide based on evidence available. Here is an independent legal analysis if you think these declarations were just politically motivated. https://newlinesinstitute.org/russia/an-independent-legal-analysis-of-the-russian-federations-breaches-of-the-genocide-convention-in-ukraine-and-the-duty-to-prevent/ https://newlinesinstitute.org/russia/an-independent-legal-an... It is unacceptable that after largest recent genocide committed, Germany has become a genocide denier because it would be inconvenient to accept it because it would mean serious actions have to be taken to stop genocide continuing. (2) There exists very clear European values. These are valuing democratic governance, human rights, free movement of trade and people. (3) Oh, that is the problem? You are personally afraid that you will lose money with Ukraine and will gain with Russia, is this right? What you think, what countries are the net winners in this EU game, Germany and France or the others? Either way, see point (2). (4) And what bell should Navalny exactly ring? I know exactly what he is and it is irrelevant. He is repressed (mild label for attempted murder and political imprisonments, I guess) for being in opposition with the self appointed ruler, most importantly, for exposing corruption and having some level of actual political power regardless of his political views. Is it your opinion that we should tolerate this because you have labeled him as "far-right"? Do you realize that on the political spectrum of Russia, he is very far from far right? And what is in your opinion so colorful about Khodorkovsky? So we can't accuse Russia in attempt to destabilize our democracy because we are trying to protect its democracy? Sounds like a fair comparison, does it? So in your opinion we could also not accuse North Korea in cyber attacks because we are having economic sanctions against it? Is that right? (5) So in your opinion it is preferred for Europe to buy natural resources from a bloody genocidal despot instead of democratic nation that is in union with Europe and not in opposition and in constant attempt to undermine it? (6) Do you think is there anything to do with Russian influence in Ukraine why it has been constantly in miserable state, or not? But my point was not about Ukraine but about Europe. If Russia is cut off from European revenue from natural resources because Europe can satisfy its needs internally then it will become democratic economical power house. Get it?

DocTomoe 4y ago
So many half-truths, it's good they came labeled. (1) A "genocide" is, by definition, the attempt to "kill a people". Given that Russia denies Ukrainians are actually a people (that they may have thought differently in the past is not relevant to the current situation), and that we do not see directed or organised attempts to actual mass murder (with the exception of the Bucha incident, which looks gruesome, likely is a war crime (we will have to determine that once independent investigations are over), but ultimately can be just another My-Lai-style massacre committed by dehumanized soldiers (noone accused the US for genocidal intend after My Lai...). > independent legal analysis Think tanks, given they are financed by outside interests, never are independent. A short search on their investors shows that these outside interests are mostly in the 'regime change' camp, and painting an opposing regime with the genocide brush is pretty effective. (2) So Great Britain is not following these so-called "European Values", because they are against free movement of people? Hungary and Poland, which are less-than-democratic, do not follow these values? Germany and France, who have serious problems with not getting into Human Rights abuse, do not share these "European Values"? Or are "European Values" just something we tell the governed so they can keep feeling superior to less-enlightened regions? (3) I am personally afraid that having more leeches will eventually tip the point to more nationalism and lead to new conflict and war within Europe's heartland, not at its periphery. It is hard to explain to a people why their elderly should freeze in the winter when money seems to be available in unlimited amounts to give to East-European elites. (4) I've given you two names which tried to undermine Russian governance and were (and still are) massively financed by European and US governments. That you choose to ignore them and instead dance around how Russia is financing TV stations and bot farms to undermine ours reeks of hypocrisy. We in the West would do good not to forget about causes and effects. (5) Given there are no natural resources not provided by bloody despots (I still refuse to acknowledge the genocide part), and that there is no democratic nation that is in union with Europe as you describe, I'm for going with the less-ecologically-damaging (pipelines are better than ships) and cheaper option. (6) Sure Russia has something to do with it. So does Poland, Hungary, Germany, Uruguay and the Chippendale stripper project. Everything is connected. Russia may have a larger impact due to proximity - but I see the main problem with Ukraine's widespread corruption. Your second sentence is speculation at best. I find it more likely that Russian elites that now are getting poorer will use their influence and power to turn the country into something even more dangerous than today.

DocTomoe 4y ago

So many half-truths, it's good they came labeled. (1) A "genocide" is, by definition, the attempt to "kill a people". Given that Russia denies Ukrainians are actually a people (that they may have thought differently in the past is not relevant to the current situation), and that we do not see directed or organised attempts to actual mass murder (with the exception of the Bucha incident, which looks gruesome, likely is a war crime (we will have to determine that once independent investigations are over), but ultimately can be just another My-Lai-style massacre committed by dehumanized soldiers (noone accused the US for genocidal intend after My Lai...). > independent legal analysis Think tanks, given they are financed by outside interests, never are independent. A short search on their investors shows that these outside interests are mostly in the 'regime change' camp, and painting an opposing regime with the genocide brush is pretty effective. (2) So Great Britain is not following these so-called "European Values", because they are against free movement of people? Hungary and Poland, which are less-than-democratic, do not follow these values? Germany and France, who have serious problems with not getting into Human Rights abuse, do not share these "European Values"? Or are "European Values" just something we tell the governed so they can keep feeling superior to less-enlightened regions? (3) I am personally afraid that having more leeches will eventually tip the point to more nationalism and lead to new conflict and war within Europe's heartland, not at its periphery. It is hard to explain to a people why their elderly should freeze in the winter when money seems to be available in unlimited amounts to give to East-European elites. (4) I've given you two names which tried to undermine Russian governance and were (and still are) massively financed by European and US governments. That you choose to ignore them and instead dance around how Russia is financing TV stations and bot farms to undermine ours reeks of hypocrisy. We in the West would do good not to forget about causes and effects. (5) Given there are no natural resources not provided by bloody despots (I still refuse to acknowledge the genocide part), and that there is no democratic nation that is in union with Europe as you describe, I'm for going with the less-ecologically-damaging (pipelines are better than ships) and cheaper option. (6) Sure Russia has something to do with it. So does Poland, Hungary, Germany, Uruguay and the Chippendale stripper project. Everything is connected. Russia may have a larger impact due to proximity - but I see the main problem with Ukraine's widespread corruption. Your second sentence is speculation at best. I find it more likely that Russian elites that now are getting poorer will use their influence and power to turn the country into something even more dangerous than today.