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Because 1. Macs have always had standard ports, such as USB-A and FireWire, and Lightning basically is never used in a master configuration anyway, so it would

Because 1. Macs have always had standard ports, such as USB-A and FireWire, and Lightning basically is never used in a master configuration anyway, so it would make no sense to put it on a Mac 2. iPads have just a tiny share of the overall market of iDevices, and they only put USB-C on the most expensive models with the selling point that the port could now be used also in a master configuration, and not only as a slave (and it's advertised as such on their website).

iainmerrick 4y ago
1. Not to get too pedantic, I hope, but Macs have certainly not "always" had standard ports -- before USB, mice and keyboards used ADB! In fact, Apple were fairly early adopters of USB, and arguably helped make it a de facto standard for desktop peripherals. Firewire was also a technical standard but never became widespread; if I recall, it was Apple's attempt to push against the converging industry standards with what they saw as a technically superior solution. But only Apple and Sony ever bet on Firewire in a big way. If Lightning is never used in a master configuration, how come you can use it to plug headphone into an iPhone? It wouldn't have made "no sense" to put Lightning connectors on Macs (although I definitely agree it wouldn't have been wise and I'm glad they didn't). MagSafe is another non-standard Mac thing -- which was replaced with USB-C and then came back again, very unusually for Apple. So, they certainly haven't always have standard ports, and Apple have not always been consistent. 2. You don't need USB-C to have your device act as a host, whatever the marketing material might say. USB On-The-Go has been around for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go The advantage of USB-C is that it gives you access to a wider market of third-party peripherals -- I'd say Apple saw the way the wind was blowing, and decided to sacrifice the control and fat margins you mentioned in favour of a better overall product. Apple has only one goal in mind - their margins. Everything they do must be seen in function of that. It's clear Apple is going to remove every single port from the iPhone, they only have to find how. I agree that they love a fat margin, and feel entitled to it, but I don't think that's quite the full story. Maybe I'm buying too much into the reality distortion field, but I think they genuinely believe they make better products due to their unique approach. That involves exercising strict control where they can (walled garden app store, proprietary connectors) and aggressively removing features that 10% of users rely on in order to give what they see as a better experience for the 90% (e.g. removing headphone jack); but sometimes also bending to market forces and embracing standards when they think it benefits users -- sometimes very early indeed. Think of the 2015 MacBook, which launched with just a single USB-C port for everything, when USB-C peripherals hadn't even become very widespread. The test of all this will be whether iPhones continue using Lightning, or switch to USB-C. I'm very confident that they'll switch, in either the next revision or the one after. It'll be a painful switch, but Apple is very good at powering through those (ADB to USB, 68K to PowerPC, removing floppy drive, removing CD drive, PowerPC to x86, 30-pin connector to Lightning, removing headphone jack, x86 to ARM). When they make up their mind to switch, they make it happen very quickly.
- qalmakka 4y ago
  1.I was referring to new Macs, at least those that came after Steve Jobs came back (~97). Older computers were a nightmare in terms of ports and incompatibility thereof, the standardisation around the PC platform helped a lot and Apple was for a long time the only company going against that paradigm with its own platform. Also I'm not saying that Lightning can't and isn't used in a master configuration, I'm just saying that's not what it is usually meant to do, and it's seldom used as such. 2. I was there when USB OTG on USB A/B was a thing, and it was _horrible_. The combo A/B micro ports were terrible, and it was rare to find the right cables, let alone accessories compatible with your devices. USB-C has been the first connector that made OTG really a thing, before it was just a crappy experience limited to a handful of devices (Samsung Galaxy, for instance) > aggressively removing features that 10% of users rely on in order to give what they see as a better experience for the 90% (e.g. removing headphone jack) I call bullshit on this point. That's simply not true. I do not know a single person that liked or benefited from the switch, except Apple shareholders of course. Everyone, myself included, hates the fact you can't use standard headphones with mobile phones anymore, it's arguably a crappy experience that was forced by Apple and the industry with moronic justifications to hide the end goal to cut their costs and push people to buy more expensive Bluetooth headphones. The fact Apple did that just before releasing the AirPods and after buying out Beats speaks volumes about what their true goal was. It's just as hypocritical and fake as their "green" push is, they are trying to paint their corporate greed as something beneficial for the world, which is outright despicable. I'd rather buy my products from a company that's unapologetically honest with their customers than one that tries to gaslight you.
  - plonk 4y ago
    > I do not know a single person that liked or benefited from the switch, except Apple shareholders of course. Everyone, myself included, hates the fact you can't use standard headphones with mobile phones anymore None of my friends or colleagues care. They use AirPods or wireless headphones on the latest iPhones and are happy with them. Your circles are not representative of the whole population. I remember using wired earbuds and hating it every time. I don't miss the headphone jack that much. Why would you want to mess with entangled cables when you can just turn your headphones on and have them connect over the air?

iainmerrick 4y ago

1. Not to get too pedantic, I hope, but Macs have certainly not "always" had standard ports -- before USB, mice and keyboards used ADB! In fact, Apple were fairly early adopters of USB, and arguably helped make it a de facto standard for desktop peripherals. Firewire was also a technical standard but never became widespread; if I recall, it was Apple's attempt to push against the converging industry standards with what they saw as a technically superior solution. But only Apple and Sony ever bet on Firewire in a big way. If Lightning is never used in a master configuration, how come you can use it to plug headphone into an iPhone? It wouldn't have made "no sense" to put Lightning connectors on Macs (although I definitely agree it wouldn't have been wise and I'm glad they didn't). MagSafe is another non-standard Mac thing -- which was replaced with USB-C and then came back again, very unusually for Apple. So, they certainly haven't always have standard ports, and Apple have not always been consistent. 2. You don't need USB-C to have your device act as a host, whatever the marketing material might say. USB On-The-Go has been around for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go The advantage of USB-C is that it gives you access to a wider market of third-party peripherals -- I'd say Apple saw the way the wind was blowing, and decided to sacrifice the control and fat margins you mentioned in favour of a better overall product. Apple has only one goal in mind - their margins. Everything they do must be seen in function of that. It's clear Apple is going to remove every single port from the iPhone, they only have to find how. I agree that they love a fat margin, and feel entitled to it, but I don't think that's quite the full story. Maybe I'm buying too much into the reality distortion field, but I think they genuinely believe they make better products due to their unique approach. That involves exercising strict control where they can (walled garden app store, proprietary connectors) and aggressively removing features that 10% of users rely on in order to give what they see as a better experience for the 90% (e.g. removing headphone jack); but sometimes also bending to market forces and embracing standards when they think it benefits users -- sometimes very early indeed. Think of the 2015 MacBook, which launched with just a single USB-C port for everything, when USB-C peripherals hadn't even become very widespread. The test of all this will be whether iPhones continue using Lightning, or switch to USB-C. I'm very confident that they'll switch, in either the next revision or the one after. It'll be a painful switch, but Apple is very good at powering through those (ADB to USB, 68K to PowerPC, removing floppy drive, removing CD drive, PowerPC to x86, 30-pin connector to Lightning, removing headphone jack, x86 to ARM). When they make up their mind to switch, they make it happen very quickly.

qalmakka 4y ago
1.I was referring to new Macs, at least those that came after Steve Jobs came back (~97). Older computers were a nightmare in terms of ports and incompatibility thereof, the standardisation around the PC platform helped a lot and Apple was for a long time the only company going against that paradigm with its own platform. Also I'm not saying that Lightning can't and isn't used in a master configuration, I'm just saying that's not what it is usually meant to do, and it's seldom used as such. 2. I was there when USB OTG on USB A/B was a thing, and it was _horrible_. The combo A/B micro ports were terrible, and it was rare to find the right cables, let alone accessories compatible with your devices. USB-C has been the first connector that made OTG really a thing, before it was just a crappy experience limited to a handful of devices (Samsung Galaxy, for instance) > aggressively removing features that 10% of users rely on in order to give what they see as a better experience for the 90% (e.g. removing headphone jack) I call bullshit on this point. That's simply not true. I do not know a single person that liked or benefited from the switch, except Apple shareholders of course. Everyone, myself included, hates the fact you can't use standard headphones with mobile phones anymore, it's arguably a crappy experience that was forced by Apple and the industry with moronic justifications to hide the end goal to cut their costs and push people to buy more expensive Bluetooth headphones. The fact Apple did that just before releasing the AirPods and after buying out Beats speaks volumes about what their true goal was. It's just as hypocritical and fake as their "green" push is, they are trying to paint their corporate greed as something beneficial for the world, which is outright despicable. I'd rather buy my products from a company that's unapologetically honest with their customers than one that tries to gaslight you.
- plonk 4y ago
  > I do not know a single person that liked or benefited from the switch, except Apple shareholders of course. Everyone, myself included, hates the fact you can't use standard headphones with mobile phones anymore None of my friends or colleagues care. They use AirPods or wireless headphones on the latest iPhones and are happy with them. Your circles are not representative of the whole population. I remember using wired earbuds and hating it every time. I don't miss the headphone jack that much. Why would you want to mess with entangled cables when you can just turn your headphones on and have them connect over the air?