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What non-violent opportunistic crimes are putting young Americans in jail? Theft? Is there bipartisan support for reducing its penalties? Or do you mean some

What non-violent opportunistic crimes are putting young Americans in jail? Theft? Is there bipartisan support for reducing its penalties? Or do you mean some other one? I can see bipartisan support for reducing penalties for victimless, non-oppotunistic crimes, like drug use.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> What non-violent opportunistic crimes are putting young Americans in jail? Low level, non-violent drug offenses are the low-hanging fruit [1]. [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/1013 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/101...
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  The crimes listed at that link are making, selling, importing and exporting drugs. How are these 'opportunistic'? All of them require planning.
  - turtledove 4y ago
    You have a very rose colored view of the world. Some folks are presented with an opportunity to sell (or be an accessory to the sale) and the deal is too good to pass up because the alternative is starving.
    - rahimnathwani 4y ago
      "You have a very rose colored view of the world." Perhaps I do, and perhaps I don't. But I'd prefer we discuss the issue than my general view of the world. Let's take your scenario: someone is on the brink of starvation, and an opportunity to sell drugs (and not starve) falls in their lap. They take it (without any prior plan). This is definitely opportunistic. What happens if the above situation is repeated a second time? Do we consider that opportunistic as well? How many times does someone have to take such an opportunity before we consider them selling drugs as being 'what they do' or part of their plan? Unless the chance of being arrested is close to 100%, it's unlikely that someone's first arrest for selling drugs coincides with the first time they sold drugs. So is it really opportunistic?
      - turtledove 4y ago
        Look, if the answer is starving or selling drugs, I know what most folks are going to do. There might not be other opportunities available. Until we've eliminated the threat of homelessness and starvation for everyone living here (which we absolutely could do), there will always be people who had no other choice.
        choko 4y ago
        I would like statistics around how many drug dealers started selling because it was a choice between starvation and drug dealing. In my own anecdotal view, many people get involved in that lifestyle in their early 20s and do it because they enjoy the popularity, drugs, and tax free income. I'm sure there are some that have "no other choice" but I would prefer to see some actual honest figures.
        turtledove 4y ago
        https://drugpolicy.org/drugsellers https://drugpolicy.org/drugsellers https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3914/1/2875-Understandingdrugselling.pdf https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3914/1/2875-Understandingdrug... Some data that suggests many get into it to feed their own addictions (which can be a "no other choice" scenario), meant more are collected by police as "dealers" even though they are just holding drugs for personal use. There's lots of research here, unsurprisingly.
- JamesBarney 4y ago
  There really aren't that many low level non-violent drug offenders in prison. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> What non-violent opportunistic crimes are putting young Americans in jail? Low level, non-violent drug offenses are the low-hanging fruit [1]. [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/1013 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/101...

rahimnathwani 4y ago
The crimes listed at that link are making, selling, importing and exporting drugs. How are these 'opportunistic'? All of them require planning.
- turtledove 4y ago
  You have a very rose colored view of the world. Some folks are presented with an opportunity to sell (or be an accessory to the sale) and the deal is too good to pass up because the alternative is starving.
  - rahimnathwani 4y ago
    "You have a very rose colored view of the world." Perhaps I do, and perhaps I don't. But I'd prefer we discuss the issue than my general view of the world. Let's take your scenario: someone is on the brink of starvation, and an opportunity to sell drugs (and not starve) falls in their lap. They take it (without any prior plan). This is definitely opportunistic. What happens if the above situation is repeated a second time? Do we consider that opportunistic as well? How many times does someone have to take such an opportunity before we consider them selling drugs as being 'what they do' or part of their plan? Unless the chance of being arrested is close to 100%, it's unlikely that someone's first arrest for selling drugs coincides with the first time they sold drugs. So is it really opportunistic?
    - turtledove 4y ago
      Look, if the answer is starving or selling drugs, I know what most folks are going to do. There might not be other opportunities available. Until we've eliminated the threat of homelessness and starvation for everyone living here (which we absolutely could do), there will always be people who had no other choice.
      - choko 4y ago
        I would like statistics around how many drug dealers started selling because it was a choice between starvation and drug dealing. In my own anecdotal view, many people get involved in that lifestyle in their early 20s and do it because they enjoy the popularity, drugs, and tax free income. I'm sure there are some that have "no other choice" but I would prefer to see some actual honest figures.
        turtledove 4y ago
        https://drugpolicy.org/drugsellers https://drugpolicy.org/drugsellers https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3914/1/2875-Understandingdrugselling.pdf https://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/3914/1/2875-Understandingdrug... Some data that suggests many get into it to feed their own addictions (which can be a "no other choice" scenario), meant more are collected by police as "dealers" even though they are just holding drugs for personal use. There's lots of research here, unsurprisingly.
JamesBarney 4y ago
There really aren't that many low level non-violent drug offenders in prison. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html