8 ms·

Honestly, at this point in the U.S. maybe we should all have a lawyer on retainer and their phone number memorized and take no such situations lightly. Also, s

Honestly, at this point in the U.S. maybe we should all have a lawyer on retainer and their phone number memorized and take no such situations lightly. Also, start actually punishing such mistakes. Detective(s), judge, police, and American Airlines (everyone involved) should be severely punished for once. And for God's sake, stop assuming someone that hasn't gone through a trial is guilty -- what is this... And for God's sake -- I know some other sibling commenter posted it too, but honestly just in case anybody misses it: Don't talk to the police. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE -- his situation could have been worse unfortunately.

londgine 4y ago
Do you know what the yearly fee of having a decent lawyer on retainer?
- _s 4y ago
  Depends on the size of the firm, and how much you interact with them. A local law office with 1-2 lawyers and a few assistants; likely $1000-1500 that’s held by them to put towards any future requirements. Larger firms range from $5000-25000 for an individual, but again, usually this money is held in a trust on your behalf and you can use it to pay down any bills or let them keep it and pay the invoices as they come.
  - eftychis 4y ago
    Thank you -- was starting to write the same and then decided to double check nobody beat me to the punch. Fees are usually not annually but an advance -- but you can have a law firm on retainer on an annul basis -- that is they are expected to deal with a particular legal volume for you annually -- different notion slightly.
- mtnGoat 4y ago
  That varies greatly. Mine was $5k, but I don’t have to repay yearly. Basically I just get easy access to get on his calendar and the first 5k is covered.
  - londgine 4y ago
    That's surprisingly cheap. I always assumed that there would be a yearly fee just to hold them on retainer, and then another fee if you actually use them. Maybe I should get a lawyer on retainer, it is cheaper than some other insurances that I have.
teakettle42 4y ago
> Honestly, at this point in the U.S. maybe we should all have a lawyer on retainer and their phone number memorized and take no such situations lightly. A retainer would be expensive and unnecessary unless you know that you're at particular risk of arrest and prosecution, but it's not unwise to at least know the number of a well-regarded criminal law firm. Put their number in your phone, and a physical copy in your wallet — along with other emergency contacts (spouse, family members, etc).
- eftychis 4y ago
  You won't have access to your phone and belongings. They are not trying to make it easy for you. How all these behaviours are sane and legal is of course beyond me. Public tolerates too much.
  - teakettle42 4y ago
    It depends on the department's policies. Locally, they'll give you brief access to your phone/wallet to copy down phone numbers during initial processing. If you don't think to ask, however, you're absolutely screwed after that.
woodruffw 4y ago
> And for God's sake, stop assuming someone that hasn't gone through a trial is guilty -- what is this... Take notice: some of the people who (rightfully!) express outrage at this story will gleefully demand that all suspects of misdemeanors be imprisoned indefinitely without bail.
- enasterosophes 4y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. This is exactly what "tough on crime" looks like, and those who are complacent in their righteousness never think the coin has a reverse side.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
heretogetout 4y ago
While I agree that detectives and judges should absolutely face charges that could lead to imprisonment (not just fines and not just termination!) if their incompetence or malice results in someone being wrongfully jailed, I worry that it could have unintended consequences: with such a policy, judges would likely help other judges stay out of prison by lying or what have you, and this would make victims look more guilty. I don't know what to do about it, though.
- usefulcat 4y ago
  Unfortunately it would also make it insanely expensive to hire judges and lawyers. How much would someone have to pay you to take a job where you could go to prison if you make a mistake? I’m not saying it wasn’t straight up negligence in this case, but that’s definitely how prospective candidates will think about it (I know I would).
  - heretogetout 4y ago
    Engineers can and do go to prison for mistakes, so at least there is precedent for paying reasonable-if-high salaries. I would expect folks interested in public service and justice would be intrinsically motivated to do a good job, too.
    - usefulcat 4y ago
      I'd be genuinely interested in reading about an example of that. Do you know of a particular incident that I could search for?
      - eftychis 4y ago
        Example/exempli gratia: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/two-foreign-shipping-companies-and-first-assistant-engineer-charged-offenses-related https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/two-foreign-shipping-co... A lot of us took an engineer oath upon graduation and there is a fiduciary relationship formed with the public in certain contexts -- outside the U.S. There are professional ethics regardless. In the U.S. with the lack of regulation the topic is a bit hit or miss https://www.natlawreview.com/article/court-holds-engineer-does-not-owe-fiduciary-duties-to-non-client https://www.natlawreview.com/article/court-holds-engineer-do... vs e.g. some states which regulate the/any engineering profession.
q1w2 4y ago
You don't need a dedicated attorney on retainer. You can buy legal insurance coverage. Many corporate jobs have this benefit already - ask your HR department.
akhmatova 4y ago
Also, start actually punishing such mistakes. Detective(s), judge, police, and American Airlines (everyone involved) should be severely punished for once. More specifically: required to bend over, expose their anuses, and cough. In addition to having a good chunk of their retirement portfolios confiscated, and being required to do at least double the jail time that this poor fellow did. Because this is America, after all.

londgine 4y ago

Do you know what the yearly fee of having a decent lawyer on retainer?

_s 4y ago
Depends on the size of the firm, and how much you interact with them. A local law office with 1-2 lawyers and a few assistants; likely $1000-1500 that’s held by them to put towards any future requirements. Larger firms range from $5000-25000 for an individual, but again, usually this money is held in a trust on your behalf and you can use it to pay down any bills or let them keep it and pay the invoices as they come.
- eftychis 4y ago
  Thank you -- was starting to write the same and then decided to double check nobody beat me to the punch. Fees are usually not annually but an advance -- but you can have a law firm on retainer on an annul basis -- that is they are expected to deal with a particular legal volume for you annually -- different notion slightly.
mtnGoat 4y ago
That varies greatly. Mine was $5k, but I don’t have to repay yearly. Basically I just get easy access to get on his calendar and the first 5k is covered.
- londgine 4y ago
  That's surprisingly cheap. I always assumed that there would be a yearly fee just to hold them on retainer, and then another fee if you actually use them. Maybe I should get a lawyer on retainer, it is cheaper than some other insurances that I have.

teakettle42 4y ago

> Honestly, at this point in the U.S. maybe we should all have a lawyer on retainer and their phone number memorized and take no such situations lightly. A retainer would be expensive and unnecessary unless you know that you're at particular risk of arrest and prosecution, but it's not unwise to at least know the number of a well-regarded criminal law firm. Put their number in your phone, and a physical copy in your wallet — along with other emergency contacts (spouse, family members, etc).

eftychis 4y ago
You won't have access to your phone and belongings. They are not trying to make it easy for you. How all these behaviours are sane and legal is of course beyond me. Public tolerates too much.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  It depends on the department's policies. Locally, they'll give you brief access to your phone/wallet to copy down phone numbers during initial processing. If you don't think to ask, however, you're absolutely screwed after that.

woodruffw 4y ago

> And for God's sake, stop assuming someone that hasn't gone through a trial is guilty -- what is this... Take notice: some of the people who (rightfully!) express outrage at this story will gleefully demand that all suspects of misdemeanors be imprisoned indefinitely without bail.

enasterosophes 4y ago
I was thinking the same thing. This is exactly what "tough on crime" looks like, and those who are complacent in their righteousness never think the coin has a reverse side.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

heretogetout 4y ago

While I agree that detectives and judges should absolutely face charges that could lead to imprisonment (not just fines and not just termination!) if their incompetence or malice results in someone being wrongfully jailed, I worry that it could have unintended consequences: with such a policy, judges would likely help other judges stay out of prison by lying or what have you, and this would make victims look more guilty. I don't know what to do about it, though.

usefulcat 4y ago
Unfortunately it would also make it insanely expensive to hire judges and lawyers. How much would someone have to pay you to take a job where you could go to prison if you make a mistake? I’m not saying it wasn’t straight up negligence in this case, but that’s definitely how prospective candidates will think about it (I know I would).
- heretogetout 4y ago
  Engineers can and do go to prison for mistakes, so at least there is precedent for paying reasonable-if-high salaries. I would expect folks interested in public service and justice would be intrinsically motivated to do a good job, too.
  - usefulcat 4y ago
    I'd be genuinely interested in reading about an example of that. Do you know of a particular incident that I could search for?
    - eftychis 4y ago
      Example/exempli gratia: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/two-foreign-shipping-companies-and-first-assistant-engineer-charged-offenses-related https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/two-foreign-shipping-co... A lot of us took an engineer oath upon graduation and there is a fiduciary relationship formed with the public in certain contexts -- outside the U.S. There are professional ethics regardless. In the U.S. with the lack of regulation the topic is a bit hit or miss https://www.natlawreview.com/article/court-holds-engineer-does-not-owe-fiduciary-duties-to-non-client https://www.natlawreview.com/article/court-holds-engineer-do... vs e.g. some states which regulate the/any engineering profession.

q1w2 4y ago

You don't need a dedicated attorney on retainer. You can buy legal insurance coverage. Many corporate jobs have this benefit already - ask your HR department.

akhmatova 4y ago

Also, start actually punishing such mistakes. Detective(s), judge, police, and American Airlines (everyone involved) should be severely punished for once. More specifically: required to bend over, expose their anuses, and cough. In addition to having a good chunk of their retirement portfolios confiscated, and being required to do at least double the jail time that this poor fellow did. Because this is America, after all.