7 ms·

This is infuriating. How does it get to seventeen days in jail without talking to a lawyer? It was probably some COVID thing, but that's just not right. AA nee

This is infuriating. How does it get to seventeen days in jail without talking to a lawyer? It was probably some COVID thing, but that's just not right. AA needs to pay. First thought is some overly enthusiastic AA security person going way too far in doing the identification that they should be leaving to law enforcement.

paulpauper 4y ago
I am not sure who is to blame: the airline, the police, the airport. probably equal blame to go around
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  The airline created the situation. The police willfully caused it to continue.
throwaway742 4y ago
I was detained by the LASD and asked to speak with a lawyer >20 times. They just kept coming back and trying different lines of questioning. They don't care about the law or your rights. It's all a big joke to them.
- chinathrow 4y ago
  Were you able to follow-up on this clear mistreatment after you were released?
  - spoils19 4y ago
    While I agree with you, how would you even prove it? Police are likely to just say "he/she never asked for a lawyer", it has been clear over the decades that they lie for their own interest.
  - throwaway742 4y ago
    As the other commenter pointed out there is really nothing you can do about it. It is your word vs theirs. There is also the very real possibility of retaliation if I were to attempt to follow up with any sort of complaint process. This is a department that is notoriously infested with gangs. They have sent deputies to threaten a FBI agent, "lost" a FBI informant in their jails for weeks, etc.
    - chinathrow 4y ago
      Wow thanks, sounds like a lost cause indeed.
systemvoltage 4y ago
Unrelated rant: Someone please explain to me how does COVID precisely delay things? It has become blanket excuse for anything and everything. I'd like step-by-step, minute-by-minute timeline on how exactly the risk of COVID delays things by days. I used to give this thing some leeway and benefit of doubt, but my default stance these days is that it is bullshit. Restroom closed? Because COVID. Fan not working in the office? COVID. Hiking trail fenced off? COVID. I can understand if someone is sick because of literally any disease or illness, we'd just make that an exception, not the norm.
- duxup 4y ago
  > how exactly the risk of COVID delays things by days Availability of judges and the staff to move people and so on?
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    Pretty much all of this is normal. Flights are operating. Traffic is flowing albeit gas prices are high. How exactly does it affect judges and the staff to move people? and so on?
    - duxup 4y ago
      I don’t know what you’re asking. I feel like I answered it. If you don’t have enough staff … you don’t. Surely you’ve experienced situations where staffing impacted things…
      - systemvoltage 4y ago
        Unemployment rate is back to normal: https://www.google.com/search?q=unemployment+rate https://www.google.com/search?q=unemployment+rate We can debate small perturbations and shifts in employment, but I am not at all convinced this is the reason for majority of the COVID excuses. Especially for a judicial process where people's employment is pretty much secure and hasn't had that much of an impact. Nurses? Sure. Package delivery? I can give them the benefit of the doubt. I see a disproportional number of things are out of order because of COVID. We can act in good faith for a while, but to me it has started to raise my cynicism.
turtledove 4y ago
Police are not interested in justice or ensuring everyone is treated well and given a chance to articulate their situation. They are interested in what makes their lives easier, which is to pack people into cells and wait for the notoriously slow justice system to sort things out. There's no consequences for mistakes, so there's no incentive to improve. It should be shocking to the core that anyone, innocent or guilty, would be subject to these conditions. But police just aren't interested in improving them. I don't deploy it lightly, but the reason I've come around to ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) has nothing to do with the personalities of individual officers (many of whom are quite nice people). Instead, it's an acknowledgement that every officer subjects people to this sort of treatment as a matter of course. They cannot avoid treating people inhumanely with the current incentives.
ithkuil 4y ago
> First thought is some overly enthusiastic AA security person going way too far Anecdotal evidence hints that that may be part of their training. I was held in line for check-in for checking in in LAS for about 1h, prevented from speaking with somebody at the actual check-in counter, all because I couldn't provide proof on my phone that I had uploaded COVID documents to the VeriFly app (which wouldn't allow me to upload said document because the first leg of the trip back to Europe was through UK which lifted all restrictions). The AA staff person threatened to call security if I tried to move ahead and speak with the check-in counter staff and instead told me to wait until he sorted out things. After a few exchanges like that where I was in retrospect way too polite and complying, he smiled and told me that I'm stuck there and there is no way I'm going to fly home. At the end of his shift, the next person was super polite and wanted to help me, but it was too late since the check-in window was closed. I can only describe this behaviour as sadistic. It seems to me that this person had been told that his job was to make sure order was upheld and he used that as an excuse to exercise power over other people.
- danielfoster 4y ago
  I'm sorry to complained this happened to you. Definitely file a complaint with the DOT. Depending how much you want to push things, this could qualify as involuntary denied boarding (IBD). I would definitely pursue this. You might also consider disputing the charge on your credit card. In the end, you presented yourself for check-in and were unjustifiably barred from the flight through no fault of your own.
  - ithkuil 4y ago
    Thanks for the pointers, but I'm in the privileged position to not have to care about the details since it was a work trip handled by my employer. I just wanted to share my anecdote for the human angle: some people enjoy exercising power over other people. It's not dissimilar to issues that the police force faces, although I would expect an airline to be better placed at rooting out this kind of bad elements from their workforce.

paulpauper 4y ago

I am not sure who is to blame: the airline, the police, the airport. probably equal blame to go around

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
The airline created the situation. The police willfully caused it to continue.

throwaway742 4y ago

I was detained by the LASD and asked to speak with a lawyer >20 times. They just kept coming back and trying different lines of questioning. They don't care about the law or your rights. It's all a big joke to them.

chinathrow 4y ago
Were you able to follow-up on this clear mistreatment after you were released?
- spoils19 4y ago
  While I agree with you, how would you even prove it? Police are likely to just say "he/she never asked for a lawyer", it has been clear over the decades that they lie for their own interest.
- throwaway742 4y ago
  As the other commenter pointed out there is really nothing you can do about it. It is your word vs theirs. There is also the very real possibility of retaliation if I were to attempt to follow up with any sort of complaint process. This is a department that is notoriously infested with gangs. They have sent deputies to threaten a FBI agent, "lost" a FBI informant in their jails for weeks, etc.
  - chinathrow 4y ago
    Wow thanks, sounds like a lost cause indeed.

systemvoltage 4y ago

Unrelated rant: Someone please explain to me how does COVID precisely delay things? It has become blanket excuse for anything and everything. I'd like step-by-step, minute-by-minute timeline on how exactly the risk of COVID delays things by days. I used to give this thing some leeway and benefit of doubt, but my default stance these days is that it is bullshit. Restroom closed? Because COVID. Fan not working in the office? COVID. Hiking trail fenced off? COVID. I can understand if someone is sick because of literally any disease or illness, we'd just make that an exception, not the norm.

duxup 4y ago
> how exactly the risk of COVID delays things by days Availability of judges and the staff to move people and so on?
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  Pretty much all of this is normal. Flights are operating. Traffic is flowing albeit gas prices are high. How exactly does it affect judges and the staff to move people? and so on?
  - duxup 4y ago
    I don’t know what you’re asking. I feel like I answered it. If you don’t have enough staff … you don’t. Surely you’ve experienced situations where staffing impacted things…
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      Unemployment rate is back to normal: https://www.google.com/search?q=unemployment+rate https://www.google.com/search?q=unemployment+rate We can debate small perturbations and shifts in employment, but I am not at all convinced this is the reason for majority of the COVID excuses. Especially for a judicial process where people's employment is pretty much secure and hasn't had that much of an impact. Nurses? Sure. Package delivery? I can give them the benefit of the doubt. I see a disproportional number of things are out of order because of COVID. We can act in good faith for a while, but to me it has started to raise my cynicism.

turtledove 4y ago

Police are not interested in justice or ensuring everyone is treated well and given a chance to articulate their situation. They are interested in what makes their lives easier, which is to pack people into cells and wait for the notoriously slow justice system to sort things out. There's no consequences for mistakes, so there's no incentive to improve. It should be shocking to the core that anyone, innocent or guilty, would be subject to these conditions. But police just aren't interested in improving them. I don't deploy it lightly, but the reason I've come around to ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards) has nothing to do with the personalities of individual officers (many of whom are quite nice people). Instead, it's an acknowledgement that every officer subjects people to this sort of treatment as a matter of course. They cannot avoid treating people inhumanely with the current incentives.

ithkuil 4y ago

> First thought is some overly enthusiastic AA security person going way too far Anecdotal evidence hints that that may be part of their training. I was held in line for check-in for checking in in LAS for about 1h, prevented from speaking with somebody at the actual check-in counter, all because I couldn't provide proof on my phone that I had uploaded COVID documents to the VeriFly app (which wouldn't allow me to upload said document because the first leg of the trip back to Europe was through UK which lifted all restrictions). The AA staff person threatened to call security if I tried to move ahead and speak with the check-in counter staff and instead told me to wait until he sorted out things. After a few exchanges like that where I was in retrospect way too polite and complying, he smiled and told me that I'm stuck there and there is no way I'm going to fly home. At the end of his shift, the next person was super polite and wanted to help me, but it was too late since the check-in window was closed. I can only describe this behaviour as sadistic. It seems to me that this person had been told that his job was to make sure order was upheld and he used that as an excuse to exercise power over other people.

danielfoster 4y ago
I'm sorry to complained this happened to you. Definitely file a complaint with the DOT. Depending how much you want to push things, this could qualify as involuntary denied boarding (IBD). I would definitely pursue this. You might also consider disputing the charge on your credit card. In the end, you presented yourself for check-in and were unjustifiably barred from the flight through no fault of your own.
- ithkuil 4y ago
  Thanks for the pointers, but I'm in the privileged position to not have to care about the details since it was a work trip handled by my employer. I just wanted to share my anecdote for the human angle: some people enjoy exercising power over other people. It's not dissimilar to issues that the police force faces, although I would expect an airline to be better placed at rooting out this kind of bad elements from their workforce.