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>>>Instead, American Airlines “departed from its established procedures,” according to the lawsuit, and sent police a single passenger’s information — Lowe’s.

>>>Instead, American Airlines “departed from its established procedures,” according to the lawsuit, and sent police a single passenger’s information — Lowe’s. If an innocent man goes to jail, the penalties should be so profound that it hurts. They should be levied a billion dollar penalty and I would say even that would be generous.

wombat-man 4y ago
The story is insane and i hope he squeezes every dollar he can out of AA
- nerdponx 4y ago
  American Airlines is a scapegoat for the broken justice system.
  - peddling-brink 4y ago
    Are you suggesting AA is an innocent party here? They messed up big time. Those accusations change lives. Nor is the American Justice system innocent, their handling of the situation was terrible, likely criminal.
    - tehwebguy 4y ago
      They are saying that the police should not have taken the action they took based solely on the unconfirmed identification provided by AA, which is correct.
    - astura 4y ago
      Police asked for a manifest. AA replied with a single passenger. Police should have realized right away this was an error and re-requested the manifest. Stills from surveillance footage (included in the actual complaint another poster linked to) show multiple people boarding the plane. The was this article is written is very bad journalism, AA (obviously) didn't know anything about the theft in a completely unrelated store, and didn't report it. The only thing they did was replied to a subpoena incorrectly. This article makes it sound like AA was doing their own investigation into a crime they knew nothing about.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- croes 4y ago
  Why AA? They didn't put him in jail for 17 days under cruel conditions. Everything after the wrong identification was done by the state. Especially if the differences between the wanted perpetrator and the arrested person is obvious.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Because you haven't a prayer of punishing the state (although you may squeeze some money out of tax-payers who never agreed with the actions to begin with). Had some less egregious shit happen to me (border patrol lied and said a dog determined there were drugs up my ass). Got strip searched, taken to multiple hospitals across the state of Arizona against my will based on utterly fabricated 'probably cause' for attempted warrantless search of my body cavities. Cuffed and strutted and talked down to by doctors who called me a druggy purely based on entirely fabricated evidence, spending nearly a day in lobbies of hospitals while health care professionals ignored HIPAA and patient consent laws to do the bidding of border patrol. Looked up the court cases, a woman in identical situation was even raped by the doctors in every orifice on the same accusations and she didn't get jack. Step A when you've been wronged by the state is to find the most proximal private entity and put them through the ringer. In this case that's AA. The state will protect itself and even if you succeed you'll need to move afterwards. ------------- To the person who asked for link of the woman: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.985537/gov.uscourts.azd.985537.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.985...
    - croes 4y ago
      I'm shocked. That sounds like a corrupt third world country.
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        Welcome to the US. Supposedly everybody wants to come here.
      - dotancohen 4y ago
        No it doesn't. It might have sounded like a corrupt third world country before we had ready access to information other than what the local newspaper and encyclopedia could provide. But now that the individual has the tools to consider the bigger picture, this sounds exactly like the United States that I've been hearing about for well over a decade. Much of that I've become aware of right here on HN.
rtpg 4y ago
I don't understand how AA is the one getting sued here. The police is the one who ends up making determinations right? Along with the whole "17 days without knowing what the crime was"... What was going on with the justice system here? Of course AA is a component in the events that lead up to his arrest, but surely our justice system should not just arrest people on AA's word and not provide any recourse. Why are we putting shoplifters into a jail cell for 17 days _even if you knew they were shoplifters_. How does a judge look at this situation and determine that this person is a flight risk? There are so many points where humans could have intervened and stemmed the damage, but didn't.
- andreareina 4y ago
  Both are at fault, but good luck getting a judgement against the state.
- idontpost 4y ago
  > but surely our justice system should not just arrest people on AA's word and not provide any recourse If you are still ignorant enough to believe that, I have 1024 bridges to sell you in the tri-state area.
  - rtpg 4y ago
    I meant my statement to be about what things should be like. I am shocked at this case, but I am not too naive to believe that the justice system in the US (and elsewhere) is close to what it should be. If society wants things to be better, repeating how we think things should be over and over is helpful! It's better to have a place to go, rather than just declare we are not in the right place. Guess I'm a bit naive.
- sk5t 4y ago
  > I don't understand how AA is the one getting sued here The article indicates that AA inexplicably identified the victim alone as the perpetrator, rather than sharing the passenger list with police. One imagines they'll be facing many, many millions in damages for such negligence.
baby 4y ago
See. They usually do randItem(suspectList) but they didn’t know suspectList was untrusted user input that only contained a single element
wvenable 4y ago
Would it even matter if AA misidentified him if the American justice system wasn't so terrible? The idea that a simple accusation immediately results in rather extreme punishment is the real problem, isn't it?
- froggertoaster 4y ago
  - rtpg 4y ago
    17 days in a cell without being told what you're being locked up for? For shoplifting? Absolutely a waste of society's resources, unless you think the justice system is for vindication.
  - diob 4y ago
    You think 17 days in jail wouldn't upend your entire life? Bills? Jobs? Medications? (god knows what I'd do without my CPAP machine, die I guess)
    - froggertoaster 4y ago
      It would suck, and it might upend others. It would not upend my life.
      - diob 4y ago
        Okay.
  - idontpost 4y ago
    - froggertoaster 4y ago
      What does this even mean? I would encourage you to stop using this word so much lest you find it lose its meaning and impact. Try calling me a racist instead?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Ekaros 4y ago
I think terminating a companys existences. Or at least all of it's operation and for a period of let's say 3x is reasonable. If they are people we should be able to jail them. Have there be period where no one can work there and they can't operate.
stackbutterflow 4y ago
What happened to "It is better that 10 guilty persons escape, than that 1 innocent suffer"[0] Seems like the current US legal system is optimizing for false positives. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio

wombat-man 4y ago

The story is insane and i hope he squeezes every dollar he can out of AA

nerdponx 4y ago
American Airlines is a scapegoat for the broken justice system.
- peddling-brink 4y ago
  Are you suggesting AA is an innocent party here? They messed up big time. Those accusations change lives. Nor is the American Justice system innocent, their handling of the situation was terrible, likely criminal.
  - tehwebguy 4y ago
    They are saying that the police should not have taken the action they took based solely on the unconfirmed identification provided by AA, which is correct.
  - astura 4y ago
    Police asked for a manifest. AA replied with a single passenger. Police should have realized right away this was an error and re-requested the manifest. Stills from surveillance footage (included in the actual complaint another poster linked to) show multiple people boarding the plane. The was this article is written is very bad journalism, AA (obviously) didn't know anything about the theft in a completely unrelated store, and didn't report it. The only thing they did was replied to a subpoena incorrectly. This article makes it sound like AA was doing their own investigation into a crime they knew nothing about.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
croes 4y ago
Why AA? They didn't put him in jail for 17 days under cruel conditions. Everything after the wrong identification was done by the state. Especially if the differences between the wanted perpetrator and the arrested person is obvious.
- notch656a 4y ago
  Because you haven't a prayer of punishing the state (although you may squeeze some money out of tax-payers who never agreed with the actions to begin with). Had some less egregious shit happen to me (border patrol lied and said a dog determined there were drugs up my ass). Got strip searched, taken to multiple hospitals across the state of Arizona against my will based on utterly fabricated 'probably cause' for attempted warrantless search of my body cavities. Cuffed and strutted and talked down to by doctors who called me a druggy purely based on entirely fabricated evidence, spending nearly a day in lobbies of hospitals while health care professionals ignored HIPAA and patient consent laws to do the bidding of border patrol. Looked up the court cases, a woman in identical situation was even raped by the doctors in every orifice on the same accusations and she didn't get jack. Step A when you've been wronged by the state is to find the most proximal private entity and put them through the ringer. In this case that's AA. The state will protect itself and even if you succeed you'll need to move afterwards. ------------- To the person who asked for link of the woman: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.985537/gov.uscourts.azd.985537.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.azd.985...
  - croes 4y ago
    I'm shocked. That sounds like a corrupt third world country.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Welcome to the US. Supposedly everybody wants to come here.
    - dotancohen 4y ago
      No it doesn't. It might have sounded like a corrupt third world country before we had ready access to information other than what the local newspaper and encyclopedia could provide. But now that the individual has the tools to consider the bigger picture, this sounds exactly like the United States that I've been hearing about for well over a decade. Much of that I've become aware of right here on HN.

rtpg 4y ago

I don't understand how AA is the one getting sued here. The police is the one who ends up making determinations right? Along with the whole "17 days without knowing what the crime was"... What was going on with the justice system here? Of course AA is a component in the events that lead up to his arrest, but surely our justice system should not just arrest people on AA's word and not provide any recourse. Why are we putting shoplifters into a jail cell for 17 days _even if you knew they were shoplifters_. How does a judge look at this situation and determine that this person is a flight risk? There are so many points where humans could have intervened and stemmed the damage, but didn't.

andreareina 4y ago
Both are at fault, but good luck getting a judgement against the state.
idontpost 4y ago
> but surely our justice system should not just arrest people on AA's word and not provide any recourse If you are still ignorant enough to believe that, I have 1024 bridges to sell you in the tri-state area.
- rtpg 4y ago
  I meant my statement to be about what things should be like. I am shocked at this case, but I am not too naive to believe that the justice system in the US (and elsewhere) is close to what it should be. If society wants things to be better, repeating how we think things should be over and over is helpful! It's better to have a place to go, rather than just declare we are not in the right place. Guess I'm a bit naive.
sk5t 4y ago
> I don't understand how AA is the one getting sued here The article indicates that AA inexplicably identified the victim alone as the perpetrator, rather than sharing the passenger list with police. One imagines they'll be facing many, many millions in damages for such negligence.

baby 4y ago

See. They usually do randItem(suspectList) but they didn’t know suspectList was untrusted user input that only contained a single element

wvenable 4y ago

Would it even matter if AA misidentified him if the American justice system wasn't so terrible? The idea that a simple accusation immediately results in rather extreme punishment is the real problem, isn't it?

froggertoaster 4y ago
- rtpg 4y ago
  17 days in a cell without being told what you're being locked up for? For shoplifting? Absolutely a waste of society's resources, unless you think the justice system is for vindication.
- diob 4y ago
  You think 17 days in jail wouldn't upend your entire life? Bills? Jobs? Medications? (god knows what I'd do without my CPAP machine, die I guess)
  - froggertoaster 4y ago
    It would suck, and it might upend others. It would not upend my life.
    - diob 4y ago
      Okay.
- idontpost 4y ago
  - froggertoaster 4y ago
    What does this even mean? I would encourage you to stop using this word so much lest you find it lose its meaning and impact. Try calling me a racist instead?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Ekaros 4y ago

I think terminating a companys existences. Or at least all of it's operation and for a period of let's say 3x is reasonable. If they are people we should be able to jail them. Have there be period where no one can work there and they can't operate.

stackbutterflow 4y ago

What happened to "It is better that 10 guilty persons escape, than that 1 innocent suffer"[0] Seems like the current US legal system is optimizing for false positives. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio