3 ms·

Griggs vs. Duke Power. The CRA explicitly allows testing. It was amended to introduce the word “intentionally.” The courts ignored the text of the bill and th

Griggs vs. Duke Power. The CRA explicitly allows testing. It was amended to introduce the word “intentionally.” The courts ignored the text of the bill and the intent of the congressmen who voted for it in developing disparate impact theory.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Griggs vs. Duke Power. Griggs vs. Duke Power does not, in any way, establish that White males are less protected than anyone else, which was the question. And your rants about it in this post wouldn't make that different even if they were accurate. > The CRA explicitly allows testing. So does Griggs. If, and here Griggs quotes the language of the statute authorizing the use of professionally-developed tests, they are not “designed, intended or used to discriminate because of race. . . .”; and the EEOC had, at the time, under its explicir regulatory authority under the act, specifically allowed only job-related tests. > It was amended to introduce the word “intentionally.” It's a big act, and I am sure that word exists somewhere in it, but nowhere germane to the case. And if it did, you, being the law-school grad you are, would surely quote it in context, and explain the conflict with the ruling in Griggs. > The courts ignored the text of the bill and the intent of the congressmen who voted for it in developing disparate impact theory. No, they didn't, but even if they had, that wouldn't make your case: disparate impact applies equally to discrimination against White candidates as that against blacks.
- Ferrotin 4y ago
  The word “intended” is right there.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > The word “intended” is right there Right before the word "or."
    - Ferrotin 4y ago
      It isn’t “designed” or “used” to racially discriminate if it’s not intended. The word “Intententionally,” specifically, is present in section 706(g) to expressly prevent accidental discrimination from violating Title VII.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > It isn’t “designed” or “used” to racially discriminate if it’s not intended. You are trying to read the qualifications other than “intended“ in 703h into surplusage, since despite the “or”, “intended” would be the one and only consideration in your reading. > The word “Intententionally,” specifically, is present in section 706(g) to expressly prevent accidental discrimination from violating Title VII. 706(g) of the Act, 42 USC 2000e-5(g), deals with the terms for equitable relief (injunctions, focus mostly specifically on injunctions for rehiring with back pay ), which, as is often the case with equitable relief, have higher standards than for legal relief (damages). In it, “intentionally” modifies “engaged in an unlawful employment practice”, which acknowledges that an employment practice may be umlawful without being engaged in intentionally (in which case, the type of remedies in 706(g) are not available, but compensatory damages remain available.)
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    “not designed, used, or intended” means neither designed, nor used, nor intended. You seem to be insisting that the “or” must be read as an “and” which is, obviously, an affront to the plain language of the test. Not only does the Court in Griggs not ignore the legislative concerns motivating the inclusion of the explicit allowance for testing, it relates the debate, it's proximate cause, and the concern cited, and announces a rule very precisely aimed at avoiding the problem the provision was designed to avoid [see, most particularly, Footnote 10, p. 401 U.S. 434]. While there might, I suppose, be a not-insane argument that the Griggs Court took the wrong view of some elements of the legislative history and context, the claim that they blithely ignored it is untenable on its face.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Griggs vs. Duke Power This [1] one? With the majority opinion written by Chief Justice Burger? Burger the Ike supporter and Nixon appointee, now somehow a "liberal judge"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.
- Ferrotin 4y ago
  I didn’t make the original comment about liberal judges, but Burger voted for Roe vs. Wade.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Griggs vs. Duke Power. Griggs vs. Duke Power does not, in any way, establish that White males are less protected than anyone else, which was the question. And your rants about it in this post wouldn't make that different even if they were accurate. > The CRA explicitly allows testing. So does Griggs. If, and here Griggs quotes the language of the statute authorizing the use of professionally-developed tests, they are not “designed, intended or used to discriminate because of race. . . .”; and the EEOC had, at the time, under its explicir regulatory authority under the act, specifically allowed only job-related tests. > It was amended to introduce the word “intentionally.” It's a big act, and I am sure that word exists somewhere in it, but nowhere germane to the case. And if it did, you, being the law-school grad you are, would surely quote it in context, and explain the conflict with the ruling in Griggs. > The courts ignored the text of the bill and the intent of the congressmen who voted for it in developing disparate impact theory. No, they didn't, but even if they had, that wouldn't make your case: disparate impact applies equally to discrimination against White candidates as that against blacks.

Ferrotin 4y ago
The word “intended” is right there.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > The word “intended” is right there Right before the word "or."
  - Ferrotin 4y ago
    It isn’t “designed” or “used” to racially discriminate if it’s not intended. The word “Intententionally,” specifically, is present in section 706(g) to expressly prevent accidental discrimination from violating Title VII.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > It isn’t “designed” or “used” to racially discriminate if it’s not intended. You are trying to read the qualifications other than “intended“ in 703h into surplusage, since despite the “or”, “intended” would be the one and only consideration in your reading. > The word “Intententionally,” specifically, is present in section 706(g) to expressly prevent accidental discrimination from violating Title VII. 706(g) of the Act, 42 USC 2000e-5(g), deals with the terms for equitable relief (injunctions, focus mostly specifically on injunctions for rehiring with back pay ), which, as is often the case with equitable relief, have higher standards than for legal relief (damages). In it, “intentionally” modifies “engaged in an unlawful employment practice”, which acknowledges that an employment practice may be umlawful without being engaged in intentionally (in which case, the type of remedies in 706(g) are not available, but compensatory damages remain available.)
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  “not designed, used, or intended” means neither designed, nor used, nor intended. You seem to be insisting that the “or” must be read as an “and” which is, obviously, an affront to the plain language of the test. Not only does the Court in Griggs not ignore the legislative concerns motivating the inclusion of the explicit allowance for testing, it relates the debate, it's proximate cause, and the concern cited, and announces a rule very precisely aimed at avoiding the problem the provision was designed to avoid [see, most particularly, Footnote 10, p. 401 U.S. 434]. While there might, I suppose, be a not-insane argument that the Griggs Court took the wrong view of some elements of the legislative history and context, the claim that they blithely ignored it is untenable on its face.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Griggs vs. Duke Power This [1] one? With the majority opinion written by Chief Justice Burger? Burger the Ike supporter and Nixon appointee, now somehow a "liberal judge"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Ferrotin 4y ago
I didn’t make the original comment about liberal judges, but Burger voted for Roe vs. Wade.