4 ms·

I still think Elm is a better example for reliable (web) software development. I've simply never had a similar experience in terms of the high amount of type sa

I still think Elm is a better example for reliable (web) software development. I've simply never had a similar experience in terms of the high amount of type safety enforced by the compiler. Interestingly I found I was much less fatigued after programming in it (and this applies for Haskell too) because the problems one has to solve aren't really stupid ones. (I don't recommend it for production only because it has been partially abandoned, it seems, but it if hadn't been and the community had kept growing it would have been awesome). I don't think your snarky section is that relevant, because it's hardly like the best technology wins. Software engineering has a bias towards either irrelevant nonsense to pad resumes or extreme conservatism.

palerdot 4y ago
> I don't recommend it for production only because it has been partially abandoned Why do you say that? Sure, there were some dramas around how the language/ecosystem should evolve and almost all external opinions are not considered. But again, you could argue that Elm is consistent because of this heavy handed approach to language design. I'm just wondering why you would consider it as `partially abandoned`.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  Too many high profile community members basically saying that it's impossible to work with the core team on improvements, with no clear communication that there even is a core team left any more, and bugs in the standard library/compiler that haven't gone fixed despite being one line changes. Many, many pull requests with such fixes have gone ignored for 3+ years. No indication of any possibility for a superior FFI or at least a path forward for the evolution of the current one. The language itself is still mostly fine, so long as you don't run into its limitations. I still wouldn't recommend it going forward for the above reasons, though. Too many warning signs and contributor goodwill unnecessarily burnt. Evan is a perfectionist and clearly has no interest in developing a feature if he can't see the use case for it (his response to negative numbers in case..of expressions was a classic example). Personally I think it's all a bit of a shame, Elm is one of my favourite things ever in web development. I really, really wanted/want it or something similar to succeed in terms of major projects being written in it.
  - palerdot 4y ago
    Maybe check out Mint - https://mint-lang.com/ https://mint-lang.com/ This is an effort that takes best ideas from Elm. AFAIK, the creator was one of the high profile community members (or atleast a prolific Elm user). I'm not sure how this language will pan out. There are too much options for UI development right now. Also, last when I checked, you have to buy in on this framework/lang completely and you had no option of plugging this in an existing project. Still, I think Elm users may find this interesting.

palerdot 4y ago

> I don't recommend it for production only because it has been partially abandoned Why do you say that? Sure, there were some dramas around how the language/ecosystem should evolve and almost all external opinions are not considered. But again, you could argue that Elm is consistent because of this heavy handed approach to language design. I'm just wondering why you would consider it as `partially abandoned`.

bigDinosaur 4y ago
Too many high profile community members basically saying that it's impossible to work with the core team on improvements, with no clear communication that there even is a core team left any more, and bugs in the standard library/compiler that haven't gone fixed despite being one line changes. Many, many pull requests with such fixes have gone ignored for 3+ years. No indication of any possibility for a superior FFI or at least a path forward for the evolution of the current one. The language itself is still mostly fine, so long as you don't run into its limitations. I still wouldn't recommend it going forward for the above reasons, though. Too many warning signs and contributor goodwill unnecessarily burnt. Evan is a perfectionist and clearly has no interest in developing a feature if he can't see the use case for it (his response to negative numbers in case..of expressions was a classic example). Personally I think it's all a bit of a shame, Elm is one of my favourite things ever in web development. I really, really wanted/want it or something similar to succeed in terms of major projects being written in it.
- palerdot 4y ago
  Maybe check out Mint - https://mint-lang.com/ https://mint-lang.com/ This is an effort that takes best ideas from Elm. AFAIK, the creator was one of the high profile community members (or atleast a prolific Elm user). I'm not sure how this language will pan out. There are too much options for UI development right now. Also, last when I checked, you have to buy in on this framework/lang completely and you had no option of plugging this in an existing project. Still, I think Elm users may find this interesting.