4 ms·

I like driving manual as much as the next person (and have been for 25 years), but I full well acknowledge that I'd be way out of my depth driving any modern Fe

I like driving manual as much as the next person (and have been for 25 years), but I full well acknowledge that I'd be way out of my depth driving any modern Ferrari. And let's be honest: if you're worried about lap times, the flappy paddle gearbox is faster. It will never replace the joy of rowing your own gears or nailing a downshift, but it's almost certainly a win in terms of reliability under real world drivers and pace under all drivers.

WalterBright 4y ago
The flappy paddle is cheating and boring. You gotta master the heal-toe brake double-clutch downshift going into a turn, or you're not a real driver.
- mauvehaus 4y ago
  I'm not saying it's not, but I stand by my claim (completely unsupported by evidence, I'll admit) that somewhere between 4 and 6 nines of drivers are completely outclassed and lack the experience to drive a 500hp+ car competently, nevermind get the most out of it on a track, with a manual. I owned an '86 Subaru BRAT with an EJ22 swap and a cranky transmission (heel-toe and double clutching required down into 1 and 2), and truly nailing a smooth 3-2 downshift with the transmission shifting sweetly into 2 was an occasion to be celebrated. I am 100% confident that I'd nail it less than 1/10th as often in any modern supercar with a manual. I've also driven an E36 M3 (US spec) and a 458. I know I lack the training and experience to stay ahead of either of them on the limit. I suspect most other people do too.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    My car is much more powerful than my expertise. I have a lot of fun with it, but I'm careful to stay within my skill level. The machinist who built my engine said he wouldn't have done it if I was under 40. I enjoy practicing double-clutching heel-toeing downshifting. Paddle shifters, phooey.
- compiler-guy 4y ago
  Every F1 pilot on the planet just might disagree that they aren’t real drivers. Technology has moved on.
  - donthellbanme 4y ago
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    > Technology has moved on. A number of technologies have been banned from F1 because they were too good. (Other sports, too, like aluminum bats in major league baseball.) When an AI bot is driving the car, are you still going to watch F1?
  - jabl 4y ago
    > Technology has moved on. Well, how far do you want to take that argument? One could argue the last time high performance piston engine engineering actually mattered was in the aero engines of the 1940'ies. Then you had the might of nation states pouring resources (directly, or indirectly through buying lots of them) into making the absolutely highest performing (in terms of power/weight) engines. With some consideration to reliability, of course, and relatively little consideration to cost. Producing masterpieces like the mighty R-2800. After that the serious development money went into turbines. Sure, piston engine development didn't stop, but the development going into "performance at any cost" was a pittance compared to other priorities.
short_sells_poo 4y ago
Agreed 100%. I learned to drive manual, but I'd never go back to it :) There's not a chance in hell I could ever learn to switch as fast as a flappy paddle in a modern supercar.

WalterBright 4y ago

The flappy paddle is cheating and boring. You gotta master the heal-toe brake double-clutch downshift going into a turn, or you're not a real driver.

mauvehaus 4y ago
I'm not saying it's not, but I stand by my claim (completely unsupported by evidence, I'll admit) that somewhere between 4 and 6 nines of drivers are completely outclassed and lack the experience to drive a 500hp+ car competently, nevermind get the most out of it on a track, with a manual. I owned an '86 Subaru BRAT with an EJ22 swap and a cranky transmission (heel-toe and double clutching required down into 1 and 2), and truly nailing a smooth 3-2 downshift with the transmission shifting sweetly into 2 was an occasion to be celebrated. I am 100% confident that I'd nail it less than 1/10th as often in any modern supercar with a manual. I've also driven an E36 M3 (US spec) and a 458. I know I lack the training and experience to stay ahead of either of them on the limit. I suspect most other people do too.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  My car is much more powerful than my expertise. I have a lot of fun with it, but I'm careful to stay within my skill level. The machinist who built my engine said he wouldn't have done it if I was under 40. I enjoy practicing double-clutching heel-toeing downshifting. Paddle shifters, phooey.
compiler-guy 4y ago
Every F1 pilot on the planet just might disagree that they aren’t real drivers. Technology has moved on.
- donthellbanme 4y ago
- WalterBright 4y ago
  > Technology has moved on. A number of technologies have been banned from F1 because they were too good. (Other sports, too, like aluminum bats in major league baseball.) When an AI bot is driving the car, are you still going to watch F1?
- jabl 4y ago
  > Technology has moved on. Well, how far do you want to take that argument? One could argue the last time high performance piston engine engineering actually mattered was in the aero engines of the 1940'ies. Then you had the might of nation states pouring resources (directly, or indirectly through buying lots of them) into making the absolutely highest performing (in terms of power/weight) engines. With some consideration to reliability, of course, and relatively little consideration to cost. Producing masterpieces like the mighty R-2800. After that the serious development money went into turbines. Sure, piston engine development didn't stop, but the development going into "performance at any cost" was a pittance compared to other priorities.

short_sells_poo 4y ago

Agreed 100%. I learned to drive manual, but I'd never go back to it :) There's not a chance in hell I could ever learn to switch as fast as a flappy paddle in a modern supercar.