4 ms·

We've known how to prevent a school shooting for more than 20 years

18 points by stevenalowe 4y ago

stevenalowe 4y ago
the TLDR: way earlier mental health interventions to interrupt the pattern (suicidal-to-homicidal)
akomtu 4y ago
- JakeAl 4y ago
  Mass shootings and stabbings happen all the time. We only hear about them nationally when it's convenient.
  - akomtu 4y ago
    Most likely it's selective reporting, but I wouldn't dismiss the more grim explanation For example Axios (which should be called Anxios) devoted 4 posts out of 20 on its front page to gun control. On other days it looks similar. If forgot to report that today 100 people died in car accidents, 5000 died from cancer and heart issues, a few multiples of that went bankrupt from "treatment" that disn't cure their cancer, but made disabled and miserable. Yet they devote 20% of their attention to a microscopic issue that coincidentally builds political capital for one party.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  I mean, what exactly are you suggesting? That these school shootings are democratic plants? Respectfully, I find that exceedingly hard to believe.
- SantalBlush 4y ago
  I would love to see a chart that supports your assertion.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  Your understanding of the trend is flat wrong. Check out sources via your favourite search engine to see the actual trend of school shootings in the US. (and then check them out for the developed world, too if you want your eyes to pop)
user_named 4y ago
Isn't the issue that the shooters have been bullied for years? And that bullying is naturally occurring in these forced enclosures that schools are. Similar to how chickens will choose a victim to peck when they're locked in a cage.
- cormacrelf 4y ago
  If the school shooters were instead using grenades or rocket launchers, would you still think “the issue” was bullying? No, you would ban grenades in a heartbeat. They are in fact banned in the US. The shooters are using weapons of war already. Assault rifles are for soldiers. You’ve just been convinced to turn a blind eye to that. And you’re coming up with ridiculous metaphors to describe this as an inevitable force of nature, as if there is no man-made highly efficient killing machine involved. (Edit, sorry for venting, the article also seems to ignore the part about the guns.)
  - _-david-_ 4y ago
    >The shooters are using weapons of war already. Just not true. They are using civilian versions which are missing functionality. That is like saying when someone kills people with a car saying they are using a vehicle of war (tank). A car is missing functionality that a tank has.
    - cormacrelf 4y ago
      No, that is a terrible comparison and a shitty argument. This is like saying we should let people drive unmodified T-72 tanks around, because they don’t have explosive-reactive armour or composite armour, and you probably couldn’t beat the US Army with them based on the results of Desert Storm. You could still destroy an entire unarmed neighbourhood in minutes, or level a hospital, killing hundreds. They are inherently capable of killing a lot of people quickly. The “civilian” model AR-15s are simply M4 Carbines with with less automatic firing modes. If you go back 50 years and show an AR-15 to nearly any soldier, they’d happily swap you. They have large magazines, and can sustain a high rate of fire with very high accuracy. The way you use them is exactly how soldiers generally operate their M4s. Don’t take my word for it, listen to this soldier: https://twitter.com/pauldeaton52/status/1532492803271544833 https://twitter.com/pauldeaton52/status/1532492803271544833
jononomo 4y ago
It annoys me that the author doesn’t summarize the findings about how to prevent a school shooting in the first paragraph. I read for several minutes and finally gave up. Journalists should realize that the point isn’t to get me to read more — the point is to convey information.
Gunax 4y ago
> is crucial to set up systems that spot teens who are struggling and may become dangerous. You can’t predict violent events or who will go from threatening behavior to murder, O’Toole said. But it is possible for us to look around and see the people who are having problems and need intervention. Interventions can prevent violence, even if we can’t predict it. Yea so i am skeptical. The problem seems to be similar to many rare events: false positives. It's just so rare, that any signs or interventions are going to apply mostly to people who have done nothing wrong. And even if you do suspect someone is going to start killing... What are you going to do? It's a free country, and we are not yet living in Oceania. Most people will tell you to... 'go away' if you offered some intervention (I would too). We cannot even prevent suicides, which are 1000 times more common.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

18 points by stevenalowe 4y ago

stevenalowe 4y ago

the TLDR: way earlier mental health interventions to interrupt the pattern (suicidal-to-homicidal)

akomtu 4y ago

JakeAl 4y ago
Mass shootings and stabbings happen all the time. We only hear about them nationally when it's convenient.
- akomtu 4y ago
  Most likely it's selective reporting, but I wouldn't dismiss the more grim explanation For example Axios (which should be called Anxios) devoted 4 posts out of 20 on its front page to gun control. On other days it looks similar. If forgot to report that today 100 people died in car accidents, 5000 died from cancer and heart issues, a few multiples of that went bankrupt from "treatment" that disn't cure their cancer, but made disabled and miserable. Yet they devote 20% of their attention to a microscopic issue that coincidentally builds political capital for one party.
Wowfunhappy 4y ago
I mean, what exactly are you suggesting? That these school shootings are democratic plants? Respectfully, I find that exceedingly hard to believe.
SantalBlush 4y ago
I would love to see a chart that supports your assertion.
Waterluvian 4y ago
Your understanding of the trend is flat wrong. Check out sources via your favourite search engine to see the actual trend of school shootings in the US. (and then check them out for the developed world, too if you want your eyes to pop)

user_named 4y ago

Isn't the issue that the shooters have been bullied for years? And that bullying is naturally occurring in these forced enclosures that schools are. Similar to how chickens will choose a victim to peck when they're locked in a cage.

cormacrelf 4y ago
If the school shooters were instead using grenades or rocket launchers, would you still think “the issue” was bullying? No, you would ban grenades in a heartbeat. They are in fact banned in the US. The shooters are using weapons of war already. Assault rifles are for soldiers. You’ve just been convinced to turn a blind eye to that. And you’re coming up with ridiculous metaphors to describe this as an inevitable force of nature, as if there is no man-made highly efficient killing machine involved. (Edit, sorry for venting, the article also seems to ignore the part about the guns.)
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  >The shooters are using weapons of war already. Just not true. They are using civilian versions which are missing functionality. That is like saying when someone kills people with a car saying they are using a vehicle of war (tank). A car is missing functionality that a tank has.
  - cormacrelf 4y ago
    No, that is a terrible comparison and a shitty argument. This is like saying we should let people drive unmodified T-72 tanks around, because they don’t have explosive-reactive armour or composite armour, and you probably couldn’t beat the US Army with them based on the results of Desert Storm. You could still destroy an entire unarmed neighbourhood in minutes, or level a hospital, killing hundreds. They are inherently capable of killing a lot of people quickly. The “civilian” model AR-15s are simply M4 Carbines with with less automatic firing modes. If you go back 50 years and show an AR-15 to nearly any soldier, they’d happily swap you. They have large magazines, and can sustain a high rate of fire with very high accuracy. The way you use them is exactly how soldiers generally operate their M4s. Don’t take my word for it, listen to this soldier: https://twitter.com/pauldeaton52/status/1532492803271544833 https://twitter.com/pauldeaton52/status/1532492803271544833

jononomo 4y ago

It annoys me that the author doesn’t summarize the findings about how to prevent a school shooting in the first paragraph. I read for several minutes and finally gave up. Journalists should realize that the point isn’t to get me to read more — the point is to convey information.

Gunax 4y ago

> is crucial to set up systems that spot teens who are struggling and may become dangerous. You can’t predict violent events or who will go from threatening behavior to murder, O’Toole said. But it is possible for us to look around and see the people who are having problems and need intervention. Interventions can prevent violence, even if we can’t predict it. Yea so i am skeptical. The problem seems to be similar to many rare events: false positives. It's just so rare, that any signs or interventions are going to apply mostly to people who have done nothing wrong. And even if you do suspect someone is going to start killing... What are you going to do? It's a free country, and we are not yet living in Oceania. Most people will tell you to... 'go away' if you offered some intervention (I would too). We cannot even prevent suicides, which are 1000 times more common.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]