5 ms·

Where is this the case? I haven't witnessed it at any of my previous jobs, especially when I worked at a tech giant (Lyft). One of the higher ups in "DEI" at m

Where is this the case? I haven't witnessed it at any of my previous jobs, especially when I worked at a tech giant (Lyft). One of the higher ups in "DEI" at my local office said to me in an elevator, while it was just the two of us, "white guys are just the worst, aren't they?" Given the bizarre state of American racial politics, it was actually unclear if she was flexing on me, or if she genuinely expected me, a white male, to laugh and nod in agreement sincerely. Maybe I was simply being tested for ideological and cultural fealty. Pretty sure I failed.

bombcar 4y ago
No doubt you were considered one of the good ones.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  What a consolation that will be next time a job application is rejected due to "culture fit".
FredPret 4y ago
I'd uninstall Lyft again right now if I could. Removed it years ago fortunately
striking 4y ago
I'm sorry you had an experience like that, and I understand that it can be really tough to take concepts like these seriously when your personal experience clearly demonstrates the opposite effect. There's nothing I can say or do to counteract what you've experienced, but I will note that successful DEI work is often like successful SRE work: you generally only notice it if you're watching the statistics carefully or if things start going wrong. What might convince you this isn't totally baseless is if I give some suggestions for simple enough policies that an organization can implement without falling afoul of either the law or ethical considerations. Here are a few: * Ensure a diverse slate. If you start hiring as soon as you have just a couple of people in the pipeline, the likelihood that someone not in the majority is hired goes way down; correct that by ensuring at least N applicants in the pool are not in the majority before you kick things off. * Update your job descriptions. A lot of job descriptions have some really extreme and fairly specific demands of skills or experience gained but end up with hiring people who don't strictly meet every one. People not in the majority are pretty especially prone to impostor syndrome (for reasons whose explanation goes beyond the scope of this comment), so don't provide an unnecessarily high bar to entry if it isn't actually there. Include only skills that are actually necessary. * Take a closer look at your hiring pipeline. Is your pipeline fed from sources that are homogeneous themselves? If so, look for sources that aren't. If you offer a referral program, ensure that that isn't defeating your efforts and encourage those who refer others to share with more diverse groups if they can. * Ask everyone the same questions. Don't let someone bring their pet problem to an interview or crank up the difficulty unnecessarily. Standardize your questions and ensure interviewers are interviewing the same way by having folks shadow each other. There are lots of things you can do beyond hiring, but it's what I'm more familiar with. I can say as a quick aside that ensuring everyone gets the same opportunity to level up in their career and making sure they feel welcome goes a long way towards mitigating diversity attrition, but it's not something I'm as comfortable giving suggestions for. Hopefully this helps you feel like not everyone who advocates for DEI is out to get you or make your life worse for the sake of making others' lives better.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  Hiring is zero sum. The reality is that DEI departments at many tech companies work diligently to make life harder for white and Asian men. It's even explicitly stated some places.
  - striking 4y ago
    Yes, hiring is zero sum, but if you're complaining about the suggestions I just gave, those work to remedy bias in a hiring pipeline rather than explicitly making people's lives harder. In other words, if you are unhappy that you no longer have an advantage because those rules are being implemented, you are seeking to benefit from policies that would otherwise advantage you as a result of your attributes, ones that make the lives of those with other attributes that much harder. There is nothing acceptable about that, even if in a technical sense this makes your life harder.
    - chitowneats 4y ago
      I'm self taught. No college degree. Raised by a single mother on government assistance. I'm very tired of hearing about all the advantages I have from people born with the silver spoon, just not white. It's very common to run into such individuals in tech. Race-focused DEI is very beneficial to people like this because they have all the elite pedigree without any of the racial baggage. Rarely do I see these efforts help truly disadvantaged people. Your suggestions are all well and good. They would help someone coming from a background like mine. Unfortunately, they bear little resemblance to the DEI efforts and departments I'm familiar with.
      - striking 4y ago
        Again, I'm sorry to hear that, but I promise you there are people out there working to make things better for everyone. All I can offer you is that the successes are far less visible than the failures, and that it's really easy to get DEI wrong (whether intentionally or otherwise). I hope that at least I've conveyed why programs like this exist and why they might be helpful to everyone, even if we disagree on whether or not they're implemented correctly.
ryan_lane 4y ago
Ah, yes, this is a totally real and true story. For those reading this: Lyft's local offices don't have DEI people. Lyft hardly has a DEI team, and they're centrally located.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  Lyft Bikes & Scooters in NYC absolutely did have DEI staff. That office was partially the result of an acquisition, so you may not be aware of the unique circumstances if you or someone you know worked elsewhere in the org. The office was two floors, with hundreds of employees, in the middle of Manhattan. It would have been conspicuous (and quickly remedied) if there wasn't anyone representing DEI there. The story is true. If you want to accuse me of lying so be it. In that case it would be my word against your disinclination to believe me. That being said, you are totally incorrect about DEI staff at LBS NYC. I politely ask that you verify this (or admit you don't have the necessary context) and retract that part of your statement.
  - ryan_lane 4y ago
    I worked out of that office for three months as one of the landing team members (second landing team), and periodically over the course of the next two years or so. After numerous complaints of rampant racism and sexism in that office (especially related to hiring), they brought over some recruiters who were focused on DEI. A number of people were fired for sexual harassment. There was not a DEI team member in the office though. That team consists of 3 people, only in SF headquarters. Maybe you're mixing up recruiters and DEI team members?
    - chitowneats 4y ago
      My tenure wasn't long enough to witness any of this. It didn't take long to determine it wasn't the right fit for me. Unless these recruiters were there early on, it couldn't have been them. You mentioned you were a frequent visitor to the office. Did anyone from the DEI team ever make the trip? I know I met this person at lunch at least twice but I suppose I never saw their desk. What happened at that office is awful. Clearly it needed to be cleaned up. Including any DEI staff acting unprofessionally.

bombcar 4y ago

No doubt you were considered one of the good ones.

chitowneats 4y ago
What a consolation that will be next time a job application is rejected due to "culture fit".

FredPret 4y ago

I'd uninstall Lyft again right now if I could. Removed it years ago fortunately

striking 4y ago

I'm sorry you had an experience like that, and I understand that it can be really tough to take concepts like these seriously when your personal experience clearly demonstrates the opposite effect. There's nothing I can say or do to counteract what you've experienced, but I will note that successful DEI work is often like successful SRE work: you generally only notice it if you're watching the statistics carefully or if things start going wrong. What might convince you this isn't totally baseless is if I give some suggestions for simple enough policies that an organization can implement without falling afoul of either the law or ethical considerations. Here are a few: * Ensure a diverse slate. If you start hiring as soon as you have just a couple of people in the pipeline, the likelihood that someone not in the majority is hired goes way down; correct that by ensuring at least N applicants in the pool are not in the majority before you kick things off. * Update your job descriptions. A lot of job descriptions have some really extreme and fairly specific demands of skills or experience gained but end up with hiring people who don't strictly meet every one. People not in the majority are pretty especially prone to impostor syndrome (for reasons whose explanation goes beyond the scope of this comment), so don't provide an unnecessarily high bar to entry if it isn't actually there. Include only skills that are actually necessary. * Take a closer look at your hiring pipeline. Is your pipeline fed from sources that are homogeneous themselves? If so, look for sources that aren't. If you offer a referral program, ensure that that isn't defeating your efforts and encourage those who refer others to share with more diverse groups if they can. * Ask everyone the same questions. Don't let someone bring their pet problem to an interview or crank up the difficulty unnecessarily. Standardize your questions and ensure interviewers are interviewing the same way by having folks shadow each other. There are lots of things you can do beyond hiring, but it's what I'm more familiar with. I can say as a quick aside that ensuring everyone gets the same opportunity to level up in their career and making sure they feel welcome goes a long way towards mitigating diversity attrition, but it's not something I'm as comfortable giving suggestions for. Hopefully this helps you feel like not everyone who advocates for DEI is out to get you or make your life worse for the sake of making others' lives better.

chitowneats 4y ago
Hiring is zero sum. The reality is that DEI departments at many tech companies work diligently to make life harder for white and Asian men. It's even explicitly stated some places.
- striking 4y ago
  Yes, hiring is zero sum, but if you're complaining about the suggestions I just gave, those work to remedy bias in a hiring pipeline rather than explicitly making people's lives harder. In other words, if you are unhappy that you no longer have an advantage because those rules are being implemented, you are seeking to benefit from policies that would otherwise advantage you as a result of your attributes, ones that make the lives of those with other attributes that much harder. There is nothing acceptable about that, even if in a technical sense this makes your life harder.
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    I'm self taught. No college degree. Raised by a single mother on government assistance. I'm very tired of hearing about all the advantages I have from people born with the silver spoon, just not white. It's very common to run into such individuals in tech. Race-focused DEI is very beneficial to people like this because they have all the elite pedigree without any of the racial baggage. Rarely do I see these efforts help truly disadvantaged people. Your suggestions are all well and good. They would help someone coming from a background like mine. Unfortunately, they bear little resemblance to the DEI efforts and departments I'm familiar with.
    - striking 4y ago
      Again, I'm sorry to hear that, but I promise you there are people out there working to make things better for everyone. All I can offer you is that the successes are far less visible than the failures, and that it's really easy to get DEI wrong (whether intentionally or otherwise). I hope that at least I've conveyed why programs like this exist and why they might be helpful to everyone, even if we disagree on whether or not they're implemented correctly.

ryan_lane 4y ago

Ah, yes, this is a totally real and true story. For those reading this: Lyft's local offices don't have DEI people. Lyft hardly has a DEI team, and they're centrally located.

chitowneats 4y ago
Lyft Bikes & Scooters in NYC absolutely did have DEI staff. That office was partially the result of an acquisition, so you may not be aware of the unique circumstances if you or someone you know worked elsewhere in the org. The office was two floors, with hundreds of employees, in the middle of Manhattan. It would have been conspicuous (and quickly remedied) if there wasn't anyone representing DEI there. The story is true. If you want to accuse me of lying so be it. In that case it would be my word against your disinclination to believe me. That being said, you are totally incorrect about DEI staff at LBS NYC. I politely ask that you verify this (or admit you don't have the necessary context) and retract that part of your statement.
- ryan_lane 4y ago
  I worked out of that office for three months as one of the landing team members (second landing team), and periodically over the course of the next two years or so. After numerous complaints of rampant racism and sexism in that office (especially related to hiring), they brought over some recruiters who were focused on DEI. A number of people were fired for sexual harassment. There was not a DEI team member in the office though. That team consists of 3 people, only in SF headquarters. Maybe you're mixing up recruiters and DEI team members?
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    My tenure wasn't long enough to witness any of this. It didn't take long to determine it wasn't the right fit for me. Unless these recruiters were there early on, it couldn't have been them. You mentioned you were a frequent visitor to the office. Did anyone from the DEI team ever make the trip? I know I met this person at lunch at least twice but I suppose I never saw their desk. What happened at that office is awful. Clearly it needed to be cleaned up. Including any DEI staff acting unprofessionally.