4 ms·

About damn time. The fact that people can talk casually about "old white men" or whatever shows that they are being racist, sexist and agephobic. Maybe there is

About damn time. The fact that people can talk casually about "old white men" or whatever shows that they are being racist, sexist and agephobic. Maybe there isn't the same historical power imbalance but factoring that kind of thing into hiring or firing decisions is still a deontological wrong. I hope he wins and I hope that everybody who has been discriminated out of a job because they are white/black/man/woman/nb/old/young/whatever else sues and wins.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
colordrops 4y ago
Sure. The biggest flaw in all this thinking is that an individual should suffer because an arbitrary grouping they're placed in historically has been abusive or advantaged, even if the individual is neither. And the groupings are usually flawed. For instance I'm an Arab, and have been discriminated against and even beaten for it. My ancestors are not Yale alumni ex-slave owner families, and I've never gotten a job for being "white". Yet I'm classified as "white", which is absurd and shows that racial groups are absurd, and not even a scientifically acknowledged phenomenon, but just a social construct [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)
- derevaunseraun 4y ago
  > Yet I'm classified as "white", which is absurd and shows that racial groups are absurd, and not even a scientifically acknowledged phenomenon, but just a social construct Who's doing the classifying? Most of the time it's you checking a box in some application form If it's just a social construct, theoretically what's stopping you from identifying as a different race? An honor system? Since there is no legal assignment of race, what's keeping people from just lying?
  - favorited 4y ago
    > If it's just a social construct, theoretically what's stopping you from identifying as a different race? Because that social construct doesn't involve self-selection. The construct is that society puts people into racial buckets.
    - derevaunseraun 4y ago
      > The construct is that society puts people into racial buckets. So let's say you apply for a job somewhere and they ask the race question on the job application. I highly doubt that interviewers are given this information. Who exactly is holding people accountable in this system?
- helloworld11 4y ago
  I don't speak for your family history in a personal sense and I get your main point about the ridiculous absurdity of racial groupings, but Islamic states and kingdoms which include the Arabic peninsula, were also notorious slave states for centuries. Again, despite many PC narratives, slavery was hardly the exclusive province of European colonial powers working against oppressed others around the world. Again though, these modern PC culture groupings that make reference to "white privilege" for all Caucasian looking people fall into the ignorantly ridiculous, or obtuse. I'm Eastern European, from the Balkans, my family and me were war refugees who never had much serious privilege in our lives but I've had people lecture me about white privilege as if I somehow have fault for an arbitrary genetic manifestation on the skin and am thus little different from any caricature of self indulgent wealthy, institutional white business men (not that there's anything specifically wrong with them either by the way). Ironically, in my direct "privileged white" family, a paternal grandfather was a concentration camp inmate and a maternal great grandfather was an ostarbieter for the Nazis, deported to the Reich during the World War as.... a real-life 20th century slave.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    My family are poor christians from a 2000 year old farming village in southern lebanon who almost certainly nothing to do with the Islamic slave trade. But I get your point.
    - anonu 4y ago
      Which village?
      - colordrops 4y ago
        Small enough that I might reveal my identity by naming it.
    - helloworld11 4y ago
      Yes, I'm sorry if I came across as at all pointing a finger at you or your family, not at all the case and it would be foolish given the rest of my comment narrative. Just mentioned the Arabic history of slave trading as a general counterpoint to a dominant narrative of it being a European custom above all else.
favorited 4y ago
> young/whatever else sues and wins Note that youth is not a federally protected class in the US – the ADEA protects people who are 40 years and older. Some states have laws protecting young people from age discrimination, but it is not universal.
- collegeburner 4y ago
  Yes I am aware. I still hope we change laws so hiring or not hiring for characteristics like that is a lawsuit and not okay.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

colordrops 4y ago

Sure. The biggest flaw in all this thinking is that an individual should suffer because an arbitrary grouping they're placed in historically has been abusive or advantaged, even if the individual is neither. And the groupings are usually flawed. For instance I'm an Arab, and have been discriminated against and even beaten for it. My ancestors are not Yale alumni ex-slave owner families, and I've never gotten a job for being "white". Yet I'm classified as "white", which is absurd and shows that racial groups are absurd, and not even a scientifically acknowledged phenomenon, but just a social construct [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)

derevaunseraun 4y ago
> Yet I'm classified as "white", which is absurd and shows that racial groups are absurd, and not even a scientifically acknowledged phenomenon, but just a social construct Who's doing the classifying? Most of the time it's you checking a box in some application form If it's just a social construct, theoretically what's stopping you from identifying as a different race? An honor system? Since there is no legal assignment of race, what's keeping people from just lying?
- favorited 4y ago
  > If it's just a social construct, theoretically what's stopping you from identifying as a different race? Because that social construct doesn't involve self-selection. The construct is that society puts people into racial buckets.
  - derevaunseraun 4y ago
    > The construct is that society puts people into racial buckets. So let's say you apply for a job somewhere and they ask the race question on the job application. I highly doubt that interviewers are given this information. Who exactly is holding people accountable in this system?
helloworld11 4y ago
I don't speak for your family history in a personal sense and I get your main point about the ridiculous absurdity of racial groupings, but Islamic states and kingdoms which include the Arabic peninsula, were also notorious slave states for centuries. Again, despite many PC narratives, slavery was hardly the exclusive province of European colonial powers working against oppressed others around the world. Again though, these modern PC culture groupings that make reference to "white privilege" for all Caucasian looking people fall into the ignorantly ridiculous, or obtuse. I'm Eastern European, from the Balkans, my family and me were war refugees who never had much serious privilege in our lives but I've had people lecture me about white privilege as if I somehow have fault for an arbitrary genetic manifestation on the skin and am thus little different from any caricature of self indulgent wealthy, institutional white business men (not that there's anything specifically wrong with them either by the way). Ironically, in my direct "privileged white" family, a paternal grandfather was a concentration camp inmate and a maternal great grandfather was an ostarbieter for the Nazis, deported to the Reich during the World War as.... a real-life 20th century slave.
- colordrops 4y ago
  My family are poor christians from a 2000 year old farming village in southern lebanon who almost certainly nothing to do with the Islamic slave trade. But I get your point.
  - anonu 4y ago
    Which village?
    - colordrops 4y ago
      Small enough that I might reveal my identity by naming it.
  - helloworld11 4y ago
    Yes, I'm sorry if I came across as at all pointing a finger at you or your family, not at all the case and it would be foolish given the rest of my comment narrative. Just mentioned the Arabic history of slave trading as a general counterpoint to a dominant narrative of it being a European custom above all else.

favorited 4y ago

> young/whatever else sues and wins Note that youth is not a federally protected class in the US – the ADEA protects people who are 40 years and older. Some states have laws protecting young people from age discrimination, but it is not universal.

collegeburner 4y ago
Yes I am aware. I still hope we change laws so hiring or not hiring for characteristics like that is a lawsuit and not okay.