5 ms·

Literary canons are not everything that was ever written, only what people decided was valuable to keep copying. Until more durable parchment and paper were int

Literary canons are not everything that was ever written, only what people decided was valuable to keep copying. Until more durable parchment and paper were introduced, everything on Europe was written on papyrus, which quickly decays on more humid weather and has to be continuously maintained by copying. It's possible that it was written about, but wasn't a super popular topic in the intervening time and the texts didn't reach us.

dr_dshiv 4y ago
Again, points to taboo over lack of knowledge. Think about it — really, no one knew about psilocybin mushrooms till 1957?
- uwagar 4y ago
  the mexican lady shaman that showed gordon wasson knew it before 1957 (life article :)
  - dr_dshiv 4y ago
    Right—to be specific— it wasn’t part of European culture till 1957
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      Norwegian here. I find that hard to believe considering they [Psilocybe Semilanceata] grow all over the place in much of Northern Europe.
      - dr_dshiv 4y ago
        That’s exactly what I’m saying! Find some old timer who can speak about his gramma’s mushroom tea and it would be a breakthrough. There is zero evidence. Ok, one medical report from the 1850s in England from a family that accidentally ate them. But that just proves the silence because it wasn't a known phenomenon to the doctor (or the family). The only explanation that makes sense to me is a massive multicultural taboo against magic mushrooms.
      - Martinussen 4y ago
        I would agree with you if we were talking about a different psilocybe, but in this specific case: You have to eat fairly substantial amounts (assume 90%ish water, you probably want at least a gram of dry mushroom) of a mushroom that tastes awful, is tiny, upsets your stomach with indigestible matter, and you'd need to eat them in a fairly short window of time. I don't see it as particularly unlikely that we only realised here after getting it from elsewhere, the Norwegian forests have a pretty substantial list of better options.
        mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
        As a counterpoint, most or all of that is also true of the majority of entheogens with deep cultural roots, like Ayahuasca. Amanita Muscaria is another abundant mushroom that is even toxic if prepared incorrectly, and yet has a long history of use in shamanistic cultures(though not in viking culture, as is widely misbelieved). I'm not going to speculate much about the extent of psilocybe semilanceata usage in Germanic/Sami cultural history, other than to say that it would likely have become taboo due to Christianity, and therefore went unrecorded.

dr_dshiv 4y ago

Again, points to taboo over lack of knowledge. Think about it — really, no one knew about psilocybin mushrooms till 1957?

uwagar 4y ago
the mexican lady shaman that showed gordon wasson knew it before 1957 (life article :)
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  Right—to be specific— it wasn’t part of European culture till 1957
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Norwegian here. I find that hard to believe considering they [Psilocybe Semilanceata] grow all over the place in much of Northern Europe.
    - dr_dshiv 4y ago
      That’s exactly what I’m saying! Find some old timer who can speak about his gramma’s mushroom tea and it would be a breakthrough. There is zero evidence. Ok, one medical report from the 1850s in England from a family that accidentally ate them. But that just proves the silence because it wasn't a known phenomenon to the doctor (or the family). The only explanation that makes sense to me is a massive multicultural taboo against magic mushrooms.
    - Martinussen 4y ago
      I would agree with you if we were talking about a different psilocybe, but in this specific case: You have to eat fairly substantial amounts (assume 90%ish water, you probably want at least a gram of dry mushroom) of a mushroom that tastes awful, is tiny, upsets your stomach with indigestible matter, and you'd need to eat them in a fairly short window of time. I don't see it as particularly unlikely that we only realised here after getting it from elsewhere, the Norwegian forests have a pretty substantial list of better options.
      - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
        As a counterpoint, most or all of that is also true of the majority of entheogens with deep cultural roots, like Ayahuasca. Amanita Muscaria is another abundant mushroom that is even toxic if prepared incorrectly, and yet has a long history of use in shamanistic cultures(though not in viking culture, as is widely misbelieved). I'm not going to speculate much about the extent of psilocybe semilanceata usage in Germanic/Sami cultural history, other than to say that it would likely have become taboo due to Christianity, and therefore went unrecorded.