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This is the case I try to make to friends and relatives (non-EV owners) who insist that a common plug is a prerequisite to EV ownership. Standardizing against

This is the case I try to make to friends and relatives (non-EV owners) who insist that a common plug is a prerequisite to EV ownership. Standardizing against Tesla at any earlier point would have been a gift on a silver platter for legacy auto by slowing EV adoption, and it's Tesla's freedom to innovate that is why we're even having this discussion instead of theoretical questions about what EVs might be like in the future. I usually tell them to let Tesla solve the remaining edge cases (semis, trailer hauling, and charge speeds comparable to ICE fill-ups) before we start regulating. Setting things in stone now would be like standardizing on DSL as the only last-mile broadband in 2004. We don't want to do that.

bonzini 4y ago
> charge speeds comparable to ICE fill-ups That's just impossible. Filling a 100 kWh "tank" in one minute requires 6 MW of power, plus all the power that goes into heat. The only solution would be replacing batteries on the fly but Tesla discontinued it. Moving stuff is inherently faster than chemical reactions (unless you're talking about explosions).
- moduspol 4y ago
  It doesn't have to be equivalent. Just being comparable from a user experience and business case perspective would be enough. Getting it down to five minutes to fill to 80% may be sufficient. Right now it's 15-20 minutes.
  - bonzini 4y ago
    The problem is not just the time to charge a single car but the capacity in cars/hour. First, if a car takes five times longer to charge, you need a lot more space to cover the needs for peak days. This may not be a problem on highways (or in the US) but space in Europe is much more limited. Second, a smallish 6-pump filling station serves 150-200 cars per hour. An equivalent charging station would need 12-15 MW which means working at 40 kV. Dealing with peak days is easy for filling stations, you just request gasoline trucks more frequently. For charging stations you need to build infrastructure that might hardly exist in more rural places, it's the same as sneakernet vs broadband.
    - chroma 4y ago
      It's hard to calculate how many charging stations will be needed. Most EV owners plug their cars in at home and wake up every day with a full charge. They only use charging stations for road trips. Also charging stations can be installed in far more places than gas stations. There are no hazardous fumes or massive fire risks. They don't require nearly as much maintenance or staff. For these reasons it's common to see charging stations in parking garages, in front of hotels, or even next to the beach[1]. 1. https://imgur.com/a/vd4dStk https://imgur.com/a/vd4dStk
      - majewsky 4y ago
        In fact, I've already seen some employers list charging-at-work as a perk on their job offers.
      - bonzini 4y ago
        The problem is the peak demand on the road trips, such as everybody doing hundreds of km on the same days to go on vacation. Using the car for your summer holidays is quite more common in Europe than in the US for example.

bonzini 4y ago

> charge speeds comparable to ICE fill-ups That's just impossible. Filling a 100 kWh "tank" in one minute requires 6 MW of power, plus all the power that goes into heat. The only solution would be replacing batteries on the fly but Tesla discontinued it. Moving stuff is inherently faster than chemical reactions (unless you're talking about explosions).

moduspol 4y ago
It doesn't have to be equivalent. Just being comparable from a user experience and business case perspective would be enough. Getting it down to five minutes to fill to 80% may be sufficient. Right now it's 15-20 minutes.
- bonzini 4y ago
  The problem is not just the time to charge a single car but the capacity in cars/hour. First, if a car takes five times longer to charge, you need a lot more space to cover the needs for peak days. This may not be a problem on highways (or in the US) but space in Europe is much more limited. Second, a smallish 6-pump filling station serves 150-200 cars per hour. An equivalent charging station would need 12-15 MW which means working at 40 kV. Dealing with peak days is easy for filling stations, you just request gasoline trucks more frequently. For charging stations you need to build infrastructure that might hardly exist in more rural places, it's the same as sneakernet vs broadband.
  - chroma 4y ago
    It's hard to calculate how many charging stations will be needed. Most EV owners plug their cars in at home and wake up every day with a full charge. They only use charging stations for road trips. Also charging stations can be installed in far more places than gas stations. There are no hazardous fumes or massive fire risks. They don't require nearly as much maintenance or staff. For these reasons it's common to see charging stations in parking garages, in front of hotels, or even next to the beach[1]. 1. https://imgur.com/a/vd4dStk https://imgur.com/a/vd4dStk
    - majewsky 4y ago
      In fact, I've already seen some employers list charging-at-work as a perk on their job offers.
    - bonzini 4y ago
      The problem is the peak demand on the road trips, such as everybody doing hundreds of km on the same days to go on vacation. Using the car for your summer holidays is quite more common in Europe than in the US for example.