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Functionally this like a hardware wallet. The tech keeps working long after the manufacturer disappears. The private key associated with the note is loaded on

Functionally this like a hardware wallet. The tech keeps working long after the manufacturer disappears. The private key associated with the note is loaded on there by the end user and can be rotated by the next person to receive the note. The issuer has no ability to claim the funds on the note. The person holding the note can always claim the funds on the note.

jacquesm 4y ago
Ok, and how do I tell a reclaimed note from one that is still valid when someone hands me a note?
- paulgerhardt 4y ago
  Each note can be scanned with one's smartphone to check value and authenticity. We're positing the level of scrutiny matches our experience with fiat cash. I.e. I'm very cavalier with checking the authenticity of low denomination notes when getting change at the pool for an ice cream cone and fairly rigorous when selling my hi-fi system to a stranger on classifieds - perhaps even taking time to do the "highlighter test". Counter-party matters too - It may take some time before we can spend these at Bitcoin Beach in El Salvador but they have currency (in the literal sense) with family and friends. These notes have the same security features as traditional currency (UV watermarks, microtext, etc) but also have the embedded chip which is the real thing that matters. I don't think it's perfect but I do prefer it to regular cash which doesn't let me electronically validate it.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Ok, so you need a smartphone to be able to exchange the notes. That already makes it a non-starter for lots of people because not only do they now need something resembling cash, they also need a phone. Anyway, interesting project, curious to see where it leads.
    - paulgerhardt 4y ago
      Agreed. Smartphone or payment terminal like a cash register. ATM's could do validation as well. Getting into the spectrum of how cash is used this doesn't have 1:1 parity with every way in which cash is used but does fill many of the same use cases and while it does need a smartphone to validate it does not need network connectivity thanks to the nature of merkle trees.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        I think what wrong footed me about that is the artwork on the page linked, it shows people paying with the notes as if they are cash, there isn't a smartphone visible in the images as though a smartphone is not a requirement.
        paulgerhardt 4y ago
        Oh sorry to clarify. The smartphone is not necessary to pay with this. In the field it is used just like cash (older concept used at ethDenver before covid: https://twitter.com/alexmasmej/status/1228771055524704256?s=21&t=y8i_Sr2wsfReiuegiYzMlA https://twitter.com/alexmasmej/status/1228771055524704256?s=...) The smartphone lets one validate the funds are stored on the note. This dynamic exists with cash too. In high trust/low value transactions we skip validation. In low trust/high value scenarios we don’t. Technically I can make the case one needs a highlighter to spend or receive American dollars to validate the note is authentic by checking the acid content of the linen substrate. In practice I don’t when conducting peer to peer payments but would when conducting C2B payments of a certain nature. Validation is an optional step which correlates with the trust environment and varies greatly by market. Given the nature of cryptocurrencies it’s imagined there would be stronger correlation with validation initially; then become lax as notes were commonly circulated or going through certain chokepoints like ATMs; tighten in regions were counterfeit notes were introduced. But strictly speaking? These style of notes have been deployed in marketplaces where a smartphone check wasn’t necessary or appropriate.
jbaczuk 4y ago
But the private key is encrypted, and the decryption key is on the servers of the manufacturer.

jacquesm 4y ago

Ok, and how do I tell a reclaimed note from one that is still valid when someone hands me a note?

paulgerhardt 4y ago
Each note can be scanned with one's smartphone to check value and authenticity. We're positing the level of scrutiny matches our experience with fiat cash. I.e. I'm very cavalier with checking the authenticity of low denomination notes when getting change at the pool for an ice cream cone and fairly rigorous when selling my hi-fi system to a stranger on classifieds - perhaps even taking time to do the "highlighter test". Counter-party matters too - It may take some time before we can spend these at Bitcoin Beach in El Salvador but they have currency (in the literal sense) with family and friends. These notes have the same security features as traditional currency (UV watermarks, microtext, etc) but also have the embedded chip which is the real thing that matters. I don't think it's perfect but I do prefer it to regular cash which doesn't let me electronically validate it.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Ok, so you need a smartphone to be able to exchange the notes. That already makes it a non-starter for lots of people because not only do they now need something resembling cash, they also need a phone. Anyway, interesting project, curious to see where it leads.
  - paulgerhardt 4y ago
    Agreed. Smartphone or payment terminal like a cash register. ATM's could do validation as well. Getting into the spectrum of how cash is used this doesn't have 1:1 parity with every way in which cash is used but does fill many of the same use cases and while it does need a smartphone to validate it does not need network connectivity thanks to the nature of merkle trees.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      I think what wrong footed me about that is the artwork on the page linked, it shows people paying with the notes as if they are cash, there isn't a smartphone visible in the images as though a smartphone is not a requirement.
      - paulgerhardt 4y ago
        Oh sorry to clarify. The smartphone is not necessary to pay with this. In the field it is used just like cash (older concept used at ethDenver before covid: https://twitter.com/alexmasmej/status/1228771055524704256?s=21&t=y8i_Sr2wsfReiuegiYzMlA https://twitter.com/alexmasmej/status/1228771055524704256?s=...) The smartphone lets one validate the funds are stored on the note. This dynamic exists with cash too. In high trust/low value transactions we skip validation. In low trust/high value scenarios we don’t. Technically I can make the case one needs a highlighter to spend or receive American dollars to validate the note is authentic by checking the acid content of the linen substrate. In practice I don’t when conducting peer to peer payments but would when conducting C2B payments of a certain nature. Validation is an optional step which correlates with the trust environment and varies greatly by market. Given the nature of cryptocurrencies it’s imagined there would be stronger correlation with validation initially; then become lax as notes were commonly circulated or going through certain chokepoints like ATMs; tighten in regions were counterfeit notes were introduced. But strictly speaking? These style of notes have been deployed in marketplaces where a smartphone check wasn’t necessary or appropriate.

jbaczuk 4y ago

But the private key is encrypted, and the decryption key is on the servers of the manufacturer.