4 ms·

Cyclists are much scarier to me as a pedestrian than cars are. Cars can be erratic but they stay on the road and, at worst, I can wait them out or otherwise alm

Cyclists are much scarier to me as a pedestrian than cars are. Cars can be erratic but they stay on the road and, at worst, I can wait them out or otherwise almost always avoid them. On the other hand I've had cyclists zoom around me from behind on a sidewalk, surprise me from the front in the dark, or buzz me while I'm on a crosswalk and they're on the road and then they shout "sorryyyyy..." as they keep going. There's nothing I can do about that, it's just a roll of the dice.

iancmceachern 4y ago
Yeah but the consequences are wildly different. Even a low speed bus hit will likely end one's time on earth. Not the same for a bike. I mean it's still not ideal, but it's on a different order of accident.
- sky-kedge0749 4y ago
  I hear you, but my actual experience is that car danger is avoidable. I can, if necessary, stand at a crosswalk and wait as long as necessary for the road to clear, or walk behind an idling car if I think it might accelerate into me, or keep walking until I reach a safer crossing. My few close calls have all been because I got sloppy. Buses especially are slow, easy to see and easy to predict. With bikes, there's not much I can do. I've had bikes pass me from behind at speed on the left on a sidewalk. If I had decided for whatever reason to step to the left at the wrong moment they'd have hit me full on. The worst street injury I've had was when a bike came at me from the front on a sidewalk in the dark from under some trees. By the time I realized it was a bike, it was too late, but luckily I lurched out of the way at the last second. I tripped over my feet and faceplanted at jogging speed but it could have been much worse.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    I've personally been biking around Northern California for a decade. I've also been walking around for the same time period. In that time: As a cyclist I've been: Hit by 2 busses. On the hood of 3 cars because they hit me Almost hit by a dozen more. As a pedestrian I've been almost hit by a cyclist a few times. Just once, have a car hit you and end up on the hood of a car and then let's talk.
    - sky-kedge0749 4y ago
      To be clear this isn't a competition. The reason cyclists ride on the sidewalk is because they don't have their own space and don't feel safe on the roads. You yourself just said you've had many near-fatal accidents over the past ten years. I'm all for making it safer for cyclists in bike lanes or on roads because riding on sidewalks is dangerous for everyone. Based on my own observations I don't think cyclists always appreciate the risk to pedestrians. Cyclists can wear protective gear, are more maneuverable and can choose to bike only when healthy. Pedestrians might wear only a t-shirt and shorts and can have any number of invisible health problems. People die or end up in the hospital from simple falls, now imagine having a bad hip and being slammed in the back by an adult going fast on a bike and being thrown into traffic or head-first into a parked car, bench, pole or some random junk on the ground. Instead of arguing over whether being hit by a car on a bike is more/less dangerous on average than being hit by a bike as a pedestrian, I hope we instead can agree that either type of accident has a very real risk of serious harm or death, and better infrastructure for bikes would reduce both types of accidents. I acknowledge it's very difficult to bike safely on the sidewalk. You need to assume you'll have to dismount and walk around every pedestrian. The exception is if the pedestrian clearly sees you, moves aside and signals you forward. If you can't or won't constantly dismount, you're putting other people at risk. That's just how it is. Dinging a bell or shouting "passing!" two seconds before reaching a pedestrian who is in the middle of the sidewalk, who might be wearing headphones, is not sufficient. Unfortunately a lot of cyclists put other people at risk instead of finding alternative transportation. I'm not saying you personally ride unsafely, of course.
      - kazinator 4y ago
        In my neck of the woods, riding on the sidewalk is a violation of the traffic code. (However, I've not been able to find where the document makes the necessary exception for small children on toddler bikes.)
        sky-kedge0749 4y ago
        In the U.S. the law varies, see: https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/files/SidewalkRiding_8_2018.pdf https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/files/SidewalkRiding_8_.... A checkmark in the "is it legal?" box isn't the whole story though since, I assume, cyclists also always have to reasonably safe, which is what I've been talking about. Being legal means you can justify yourself to a cop if you move your bike onto a sidewalk to avoid a 40mph six-lane stroad, not that you can buzz pedestrians.

iancmceachern 4y ago

Yeah but the consequences are wildly different. Even a low speed bus hit will likely end one's time on earth. Not the same for a bike. I mean it's still not ideal, but it's on a different order of accident.

sky-kedge0749 4y ago
I hear you, but my actual experience is that car danger is avoidable. I can, if necessary, stand at a crosswalk and wait as long as necessary for the road to clear, or walk behind an idling car if I think it might accelerate into me, or keep walking until I reach a safer crossing. My few close calls have all been because I got sloppy. Buses especially are slow, easy to see and easy to predict. With bikes, there's not much I can do. I've had bikes pass me from behind at speed on the left on a sidewalk. If I had decided for whatever reason to step to the left at the wrong moment they'd have hit me full on. The worst street injury I've had was when a bike came at me from the front on a sidewalk in the dark from under some trees. By the time I realized it was a bike, it was too late, but luckily I lurched out of the way at the last second. I tripped over my feet and faceplanted at jogging speed but it could have been much worse.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  I've personally been biking around Northern California for a decade. I've also been walking around for the same time period. In that time: As a cyclist I've been: Hit by 2 busses. On the hood of 3 cars because they hit me Almost hit by a dozen more. As a pedestrian I've been almost hit by a cyclist a few times. Just once, have a car hit you and end up on the hood of a car and then let's talk.
  - sky-kedge0749 4y ago
    To be clear this isn't a competition. The reason cyclists ride on the sidewalk is because they don't have their own space and don't feel safe on the roads. You yourself just said you've had many near-fatal accidents over the past ten years. I'm all for making it safer for cyclists in bike lanes or on roads because riding on sidewalks is dangerous for everyone. Based on my own observations I don't think cyclists always appreciate the risk to pedestrians. Cyclists can wear protective gear, are more maneuverable and can choose to bike only when healthy. Pedestrians might wear only a t-shirt and shorts and can have any number of invisible health problems. People die or end up in the hospital from simple falls, now imagine having a bad hip and being slammed in the back by an adult going fast on a bike and being thrown into traffic or head-first into a parked car, bench, pole or some random junk on the ground. Instead of arguing over whether being hit by a car on a bike is more/less dangerous on average than being hit by a bike as a pedestrian, I hope we instead can agree that either type of accident has a very real risk of serious harm or death, and better infrastructure for bikes would reduce both types of accidents. I acknowledge it's very difficult to bike safely on the sidewalk. You need to assume you'll have to dismount and walk around every pedestrian. The exception is if the pedestrian clearly sees you, moves aside and signals you forward. If you can't or won't constantly dismount, you're putting other people at risk. That's just how it is. Dinging a bell or shouting "passing!" two seconds before reaching a pedestrian who is in the middle of the sidewalk, who might be wearing headphones, is not sufficient. Unfortunately a lot of cyclists put other people at risk instead of finding alternative transportation. I'm not saying you personally ride unsafely, of course.
    - kazinator 4y ago
      In my neck of the woods, riding on the sidewalk is a violation of the traffic code. (However, I've not been able to find where the document makes the necessary exception for small children on toddler bikes.)
      - sky-kedge0749 4y ago
        In the U.S. the law varies, see: https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/files/SidewalkRiding_8_2018.pdf https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/files/SidewalkRiding_8_.... A checkmark in the "is it legal?" box isn't the whole story though since, I assume, cyclists also always have to reasonably safe, which is what I've been talking about. Being legal means you can justify yourself to a cop if you move your bike onto a sidewalk to avoid a 40mph six-lane stroad, not that you can buzz pedestrians.