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> Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule

> Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule of law exists in both Germany and the US. Of course it matters. The profit goes in the direction of headquarters, tax is paid in the country of headquarters, and the government of the country of headquarters has much bigger influence to the company.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>tax is paid in the country of headquarters Tax havens have something to say about that. The French semi giant, ST, is financially incorporated in the Netherlands (STMicroelectronics N.V.), as is the French giant Airbus (Airbus Group N.V.). There seems to be a pattern here. It's almost as if companies don't want to pay taxes, regardless if it's their home country.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Following the merger between Peugeot and Fiat-Chrysler the new company (Stellantis) is also headquartered in the Netherlands, though I believe that Fiat-Chrysler already was. That's a recurring issue for France because they are not business-friendly. It's not even a question of being a tax-heaven (the Netherlands are not) but simply to make everything unduly complex and costly. We've also seen that following Brexit: Banks would move from London to Paris! Err, no they didn't move or moved to Amsterdam...
  - sofixa 4y ago
    > but simply to make everything unduly complex and costly I disagree with that characterisation, doing business in France is not that complex. Amsterdam has a giant advantage though - the English language is widely spoken and accepted, which really isn't the case in Paris. If an international organisation is looking to move from London, Amsterdam makes much more sense than Paris, even if we disregard the taxes side of things.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      Not that complex... Right. It's complex and costly enough enough that France keeps losing out. It's ridiculous, really, because there is no good reason for this. It's a mix of lack of self-awareness and ideology. France is not an isolated case, though. Many countries are like that, sadly.
      - sofixa 4y ago
        > It's a mix of lack of self-awareness and ideology Respectfully disagree. The current president, who was just reelected, literally won his first campaign on "i'll improve things for business, make it easier, enable startups, optimise government expenditures". And he enacted many business-oriented reforms that have enabled quite a startup boom ( for the French and EU standards, of course it's nowhere close to the US due to a myriad of factors like available financing). There's awareness of the challenges, and what ideology would that be?
        mytailorisrich 4y ago
        They always win campaigns by promising a lot of things and then rarely deliver. He is no exception, overall the 'reforms' have been minimal and the 'old recipes' (I.e. hand government subsidies as soon as people complain) have not changed. Ideology, well just with my comments here many would label me 'liberal', which in France is borderline derogatory for some people with the meaning of 'free market capitalist bent on exploiting the working-class', simply for stating that there may be no need for millions of civil servants, myriads of taxes, and red tape for everything... the far left dominates the left at the moment, after all. Self-awareness because many people in France do not even realise this or how simple things could be. For instance, the 'attestation' people needed to fill in to leave their homes during Covid lockdowns. From abroad it looked like pointless red tape madness, while in France someone obviously seriously thought that was a good idea and they were very serious about it.
- sofixa 4y ago
  > as is the French giant Airbus (Airbus Group N.V.). Airbus are not a French giant. They're the result of a merger of Spanish, French, German and British aircraft companies. The HQ of Airbus civil aircraft is in France, but for Military aircraft it's in Spain, for helicopters it's in Germany. Wings are made in the UK. There are factories all over those places ( which presents unique challenges in terms of logistics, there's a lot of material out there on how they handle shipping various parts to the correct factory for final assembly, it's fascinating). The Netherlands is a nice neutral location ( of course with a good tax regime and simple corporate structures) to have the registration.
HWR_14 4y ago
The taxes issue is why the EU added a bunch of VAT taxes. Intel pays less taxes (excluding VAT and property taxes) than the amount of this subsidy anyway. I agree that China impacts its companies beyond its borders, but the US government does not. The US government has enough trouble regulating the US operations of US companies, Unless you bribe someone. They seem to actually care about that.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>tax is paid in the country of headquarters Tax havens have something to say about that. The French semi giant, ST, is financially incorporated in the Netherlands (STMicroelectronics N.V.), as is the French giant Airbus (Airbus Group N.V.). There seems to be a pattern here. It's almost as if companies don't want to pay taxes, regardless if it's their home country.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
Following the merger between Peugeot and Fiat-Chrysler the new company (Stellantis) is also headquartered in the Netherlands, though I believe that Fiat-Chrysler already was. That's a recurring issue for France because they are not business-friendly. It's not even a question of being a tax-heaven (the Netherlands are not) but simply to make everything unduly complex and costly. We've also seen that following Brexit: Banks would move from London to Paris! Err, no they didn't move or moved to Amsterdam...
- sofixa 4y ago
  > but simply to make everything unduly complex and costly I disagree with that characterisation, doing business in France is not that complex. Amsterdam has a giant advantage though - the English language is widely spoken and accepted, which really isn't the case in Paris. If an international organisation is looking to move from London, Amsterdam makes much more sense than Paris, even if we disregard the taxes side of things.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    Not that complex... Right. It's complex and costly enough enough that France keeps losing out. It's ridiculous, really, because there is no good reason for this. It's a mix of lack of self-awareness and ideology. France is not an isolated case, though. Many countries are like that, sadly.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      > It's a mix of lack of self-awareness and ideology Respectfully disagree. The current president, who was just reelected, literally won his first campaign on "i'll improve things for business, make it easier, enable startups, optimise government expenditures". And he enacted many business-oriented reforms that have enabled quite a startup boom ( for the French and EU standards, of course it's nowhere close to the US due to a myriad of factors like available financing). There's awareness of the challenges, and what ideology would that be?
      - mytailorisrich 4y ago
        They always win campaigns by promising a lot of things and then rarely deliver. He is no exception, overall the 'reforms' have been minimal and the 'old recipes' (I.e. hand government subsidies as soon as people complain) have not changed. Ideology, well just with my comments here many would label me 'liberal', which in France is borderline derogatory for some people with the meaning of 'free market capitalist bent on exploiting the working-class', simply for stating that there may be no need for millions of civil servants, myriads of taxes, and red tape for everything... the far left dominates the left at the moment, after all. Self-awareness because many people in France do not even realise this or how simple things could be. For instance, the 'attestation' people needed to fill in to leave their homes during Covid lockdowns. From abroad it looked like pointless red tape madness, while in France someone obviously seriously thought that was a good idea and they were very serious about it.
sofixa 4y ago
> as is the French giant Airbus (Airbus Group N.V.). Airbus are not a French giant. They're the result of a merger of Spanish, French, German and British aircraft companies. The HQ of Airbus civil aircraft is in France, but for Military aircraft it's in Spain, for helicopters it's in Germany. Wings are made in the UK. There are factories all over those places ( which presents unique challenges in terms of logistics, there's a lot of material out there on how they handle shipping various parts to the correct factory for final assembly, it's fascinating). The Netherlands is a nice neutral location ( of course with a good tax regime and simple corporate structures) to have the registration.

HWR_14 4y ago

The taxes issue is why the EU added a bunch of VAT taxes. Intel pays less taxes (excluding VAT and property taxes) than the amount of this subsidy anyway. I agree that China impacts its companies beyond its borders, but the US government does not. The US government has enough trouble regulating the US operations of US companies, Unless you bribe someone. They seem to actually care about that.