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> Finally, blockchain technologies facilitate few, if any, real-economy uses. On the other hand, the underlying crypto-assets have been the vehicle for unsound

> Finally, blockchain technologies facilitate few, if any, real-economy uses. On the other hand, the underlying crypto-assets have been the vehicle for unsound and highly volatile speculative investment schemes that are being actively promoted to retail investors who may be unable to understand their nature and risk. Other significant externalities include threats to national security through money laundering and ransomware attacks, financial stability risks from high price volatility, speculation and susceptibility to run risk, massive climate emissions from the proof-of-work technology utilized by some of the most widely traded crypto-assets, and investor risk from large scale scams and other criminal financial activity. Venezuelan emigrants have been using cryptocurrencies to get cash back to their families: https://www.reuters.com/technology/venezuelas-economy-regresses-crypto-fills-gaps-2021-06-22/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/venezuelas-economy-regres... Navalny's Foundation takes BTC and ETH donations and recommends them as the safest option: https://donate.fbk.world/?utm_campaign=10MAR22_fundraising_acf_link&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter https://donate.fbk.world/?utm_campaign=10MAR22_fundraising_a... Several Ukrainian humanitarian and military fundraisers are using crypto: https://nitter.net/kamilkazani/status/1533471887958986758#m https://nitter.net/kamilkazani/status/1533471887958986758#m These are just the first three examples that come to my mind. When I see Americans crow about the uselessness of cryptocurrencies, I think of Marie Antoinette.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
More Venezuelans used Zelle with dollars than crypto. I was able to donate dollars without issue directly to the Ukrainian government. Crypto proponents trot out these edge suboptimal use cases as excuses to allow an entire global Ponzi scheme to continue, when the discussion should be “what mechanisms can be provided to support refugee value protection and transferring value to friendly nations under attack using existing fiat rails and the laws that protect users of them?” That’s not hard to do using existing systems, but crypto proponents are so wrapped up in the thought of their digital assets rapidly declining in value that it isn’t an option to them. “Crypto must be the way.” when the evidence is clear it is not. https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/06/16/venezuela-is-a-testing-ground-for-digital-dollarization-and-zelle-doesnt-like-it/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/06/16/venezuela-is-a-t...
- generationP 4y ago
  Can a random Venezuelan sign up for Zelle? I needed an SSN if I recall correctly (in the US at least). And yes, I've donated to the Ukrainian military through https://uahelp.monobank.ua/ https://uahelp.monobank.ua/ , with a normal credit card donation. But these are slightly different things. One is a catch-all army account, which will probably take its time to percolate the money to whomever the higher-ups think needs it most. The other are grassroots initiatives supporting small divisions or local ter-oboronas (and yes, some of them are probably fake, but I don't think the majority is; it's a risk you take when you're funding anything). Neither replaces the other; in a war, there are things that the central government can do that a local volunteer bataillon can't, and vice versa.
  - yks 4y ago
    You can send money to any Ukrainian bank account via SWIFT. This includes all personal bank accounts. A recipient needs to lookup the bank's SWIFT code and IBAN which can be non-obvious but working with crypto is also non-obvious. Fees vary as do crypto fees. Crypto is not a qualitative improvement here, it's just one option out of many with pros/cons.
    - generationP 4y ago
      For many Americans, SWIFT is harder than crypto. I don't think I can transfer via SWIFT without physically going to my bank here in the US.
searchableguy 4y ago
Financial inclusion tech letter: https://www.financialinclusion.tech/ https://www.financialinclusion.tech/ Support from activists and people in corrupt, poor, and developing countries.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Signatures from activists, people in corrupt, poor, and developing countries Speaking purely from a political perspective, this is a terrible argument. You're addressing the U.S. Congress. The letter this comment thread attaches to lists harms crypto brings on Americans. Your letter lists benefits accruing to non-Americans. If I were a lobbyist for the original letter's writers, I'd line these two up and end my case. Benevolence has its place. But it's a strange bedfellow to financial deregulation.
  - generationP 4y ago
    > Your letter lists benefits accruing to non-Americans. This is the literal reading, yes.
- hnthrow1010 4y ago
  I find these type of things to be deeply unconvincing, not in the sense that these people aren't getting something out of it, but again because it is happening in spite of the fact that it's cryptocurrency. They aren't using this because of some technical blockchain reasons, they're using this because it's a group of powerful foreigners coming along allowing them to do illegal forex. I guess you can't as easily push the "financial inclusion" angle if you're illegally selling them USD on black markets as a way to evade taxes? Then it becomes a lot more obvious what the game is.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

More Venezuelans used Zelle with dollars than crypto. I was able to donate dollars without issue directly to the Ukrainian government. Crypto proponents trot out these edge suboptimal use cases as excuses to allow an entire global Ponzi scheme to continue, when the discussion should be “what mechanisms can be provided to support refugee value protection and transferring value to friendly nations under attack using existing fiat rails and the laws that protect users of them?” That’s not hard to do using existing systems, but crypto proponents are so wrapped up in the thought of their digital assets rapidly declining in value that it isn’t an option to them. “Crypto must be the way.” when the evidence is clear it is not. https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/06/16/venezuela-is-a-testing-ground-for-digital-dollarization-and-zelle-doesnt-like-it/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/06/16/venezuela-is-a-t...

generationP 4y ago
Can a random Venezuelan sign up for Zelle? I needed an SSN if I recall correctly (in the US at least). And yes, I've donated to the Ukrainian military through https://uahelp.monobank.ua/ https://uahelp.monobank.ua/ , with a normal credit card donation. But these are slightly different things. One is a catch-all army account, which will probably take its time to percolate the money to whomever the higher-ups think needs it most. The other are grassroots initiatives supporting small divisions or local ter-oboronas (and yes, some of them are probably fake, but I don't think the majority is; it's a risk you take when you're funding anything). Neither replaces the other; in a war, there are things that the central government can do that a local volunteer bataillon can't, and vice versa.
- yks 4y ago
  You can send money to any Ukrainian bank account via SWIFT. This includes all personal bank accounts. A recipient needs to lookup the bank's SWIFT code and IBAN which can be non-obvious but working with crypto is also non-obvious. Fees vary as do crypto fees. Crypto is not a qualitative improvement here, it's just one option out of many with pros/cons.
  - generationP 4y ago
    For many Americans, SWIFT is harder than crypto. I don't think I can transfer via SWIFT without physically going to my bank here in the US.

searchableguy 4y ago

Financial inclusion tech letter: https://www.financialinclusion.tech/ https://www.financialinclusion.tech/ Support from activists and people in corrupt, poor, and developing countries.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Signatures from activists, people in corrupt, poor, and developing countries Speaking purely from a political perspective, this is a terrible argument. You're addressing the U.S. Congress. The letter this comment thread attaches to lists harms crypto brings on Americans. Your letter lists benefits accruing to non-Americans. If I were a lobbyist for the original letter's writers, I'd line these two up and end my case. Benevolence has its place. But it's a strange bedfellow to financial deregulation.
- generationP 4y ago
  > Your letter lists benefits accruing to non-Americans. This is the literal reading, yes.
hnthrow1010 4y ago
I find these type of things to be deeply unconvincing, not in the sense that these people aren't getting something out of it, but again because it is happening in spite of the fact that it's cryptocurrency. They aren't using this because of some technical blockchain reasons, they're using this because it's a group of powerful foreigners coming along allowing them to do illegal forex. I guess you can't as easily push the "financial inclusion" angle if you're illegally selling them USD on black markets as a way to evade taxes? Then it becomes a lot more obvious what the game is.