9 ms·

> They are welcome to change it going forward, they just have to agree and consolidate. That's not how innovation works. What motivation would they have to ch

> They are welcome to change it going forward, they just have to agree and consolidate. That's not how innovation works. What motivation would they have to change it if all your competitors will change it step? This only hurts consumers.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> That's not how innovation works Yes, exactly, this is how standardization works. Who cares about innovation in charging plugs form factor? Innovations should be innovative enough to get around the plug. Light bulbs have been the same for at least 80 years and it didn't stop innovation. Why do people are so scared about things that are only hypothetical, while this solves a real issue?
- ericd 4y ago
  Light bulb sockets are actually a great example for the downsides of standardization, because they’re super suboptimal for LED bulbs, and are a large part of the reason for the transformers on many of the new bulbs burning out way before their rated lifetime. A better LED socket would provide better heatsinking/dissipation opportunities. But it was pretty good for many decades.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    How many more LED bulbs have been sold thanks to the fact that people don't have to replace the socket, just the bulb? Having a retro compatible socket drove the adoption of more energy efficient bulbs.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    MR16 is a 12V DC standard so it does not need a transformer, in theory it's much better for LEDs, and yet we hardly ever see it used even in new builds. Every time I rented a place with MR16, like 1/3 of all sockets in the ceiling were dead, the power supply was inside the false ceiling and it was not possible to fix without making a hole. Needless to say lardlord need much motivating to fix anything. Also, it;s not illegal to install random non-standard bulbs -> my last apartmentblock was built with some special, great, proprietary and patented LED-spesific socket. Guess what happened? 15 years on, the lamps started failing, and the manufacturere dropped production of anything for that socket! Now they need to replace like a thousands light fittings across the entire block, there is no way to get replacements. Some of them are in awkward places and will require a special vehicle to reach.
    - ericd 4y ago
      Yeah, there’s a ton of inertia, with the standard socket so well entrenched. That’s pretty crazy about the proprietary socket. Seems like the big industry players should get a voluntary standards group together and make a big push.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  If this standardization happened in 1999, would we now all be walking around with the original [large] USB-B or DC barrel jacks on our phones? (Those were the standardized connectors of the day.) Do we believe given the track record of a new connector being introduced more frequently than once every 5 years just within the USB standardization process, that we've somehow reached the end of that road in practical terms? If we've reached the end of the road, by all means we could standardize and say "you have to use the pinnacle of USB connector type".
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    we have only standardized the need to supply one type of connector, nothing stops USB from evolving. I still use Ethernet at work, it's connected to the thunderbolt port through an adaptor.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Is it better if my phone has the mandated-by-[hypothetical]-1999-law original USB-B and a new-fangled USB-C?
      - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
        Would it have been better if they settled on this? https://www.mouser.it/images/qualtek/hd/703W-00_SPL.jpg https://www.mouser.it/images/qualtek/hd/703W-00_SPL.jpg It has been working quite well in many electronic devices for decades... I don't see the usefulness of discussing things that have not happened. Is USB-C bad? That's the question you should be interested in. “The best is the enemy of the good.” Saying that choices should never be made because we don't know what the future brings, is the same of saying that there's no point in living, because we are all going to die. Of course they did not settle on USB-B in 1999 because there weren't billions of devices using it and it was relatively new technology. Now it's a de facto standard already.
        sokoloff 4y ago
horsawlarway 4y ago
I think this is a pretty bad take. Not all that many companies are doing work for cable standards to begin with, and personally - as a consumer - I very much welcome the standardization on usb-c. The companies that are doing work on communication standards aren't normally selling the kind of devices covered here to consumers. It's more business to business and military applications. Further, charging in particular is a different beast than communication in general - you're not doing anything other than sending current down the line to fill a battery. there's only so many ways to do that, and I think it makes sense to consolidate them. Finally - the requirement only states that the device must include a usb-c port for charging. It makes no limitations on manufacturers including additional ports. So even if a direct to consumer device wanted to include a new port - they absolutely could, they just still have to allow filling the battery from usb-c.
- scarface74 4y ago
  If you as a consumer prefer USB-C, buy a phone using USB-C. Why have the government involved?
  - pixl97 4y ago
    I hate to be snarky on HN, but are we from the same planet? In the vast majority of devices you accept what the manufacture gives you or you are out of luck, especially when everything these days is protected by some kind of intellectual property. This excuse is old and tired and tends to ignore that large manufactures purposefully make the customer experience worse for higher profits.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Yes and their plenty of phone manufactures that give you a choice of buying phones with USB-C.
      - yladiz 4y ago
        And plenty don’t.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

> That's not how innovation works Yes, exactly, this is how standardization works. Who cares about innovation in charging plugs form factor? Innovations should be innovative enough to get around the plug. Light bulbs have been the same for at least 80 years and it didn't stop innovation. Why do people are so scared about things that are only hypothetical, while this solves a real issue?

ericd 4y ago
Light bulb sockets are actually a great example for the downsides of standardization, because they’re super suboptimal for LED bulbs, and are a large part of the reason for the transformers on many of the new bulbs burning out way before their rated lifetime. A better LED socket would provide better heatsinking/dissipation opportunities. But it was pretty good for many decades.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  How many more LED bulbs have been sold thanks to the fact that people don't have to replace the socket, just the bulb? Having a retro compatible socket drove the adoption of more energy efficient bulbs.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  MR16 is a 12V DC standard so it does not need a transformer, in theory it's much better for LEDs, and yet we hardly ever see it used even in new builds. Every time I rented a place with MR16, like 1/3 of all sockets in the ceiling were dead, the power supply was inside the false ceiling and it was not possible to fix without making a hole. Needless to say lardlord need much motivating to fix anything. Also, it;s not illegal to install random non-standard bulbs -> my last apartmentblock was built with some special, great, proprietary and patented LED-spesific socket. Guess what happened? 15 years on, the lamps started failing, and the manufacturere dropped production of anything for that socket! Now they need to replace like a thousands light fittings across the entire block, there is no way to get replacements. Some of them are in awkward places and will require a special vehicle to reach.
  - ericd 4y ago
    Yeah, there’s a ton of inertia, with the standard socket so well entrenched. That’s pretty crazy about the proprietary socket. Seems like the big industry players should get a voluntary standards group together and make a big push.
sokoloff 4y ago
If this standardization happened in 1999, would we now all be walking around with the original [large] USB-B or DC barrel jacks on our phones? (Those were the standardized connectors of the day.) Do we believe given the track record of a new connector being introduced more frequently than once every 5 years just within the USB standardization process, that we've somehow reached the end of that road in practical terms? If we've reached the end of the road, by all means we could standardize and say "you have to use the pinnacle of USB connector type".
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  we have only standardized the need to supply one type of connector, nothing stops USB from evolving. I still use Ethernet at work, it's connected to the thunderbolt port through an adaptor.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Is it better if my phone has the mandated-by-[hypothetical]-1999-law original USB-B and a new-fangled USB-C?
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      Would it have been better if they settled on this? https://www.mouser.it/images/qualtek/hd/703W-00_SPL.jpg https://www.mouser.it/images/qualtek/hd/703W-00_SPL.jpg It has been working quite well in many electronic devices for decades... I don't see the usefulness of discussing things that have not happened. Is USB-C bad? That's the question you should be interested in. “The best is the enemy of the good.” Saying that choices should never be made because we don't know what the future brings, is the same of saying that there's no point in living, because we are all going to die. Of course they did not settle on USB-B in 1999 because there weren't billions of devices using it and it was relatively new technology. Now it's a de facto standard already.
      - sokoloff 4y ago

horsawlarway 4y ago

I think this is a pretty bad take. Not all that many companies are doing work for cable standards to begin with, and personally - as a consumer - I very much welcome the standardization on usb-c. The companies that are doing work on communication standards aren't normally selling the kind of devices covered here to consumers. It's more business to business and military applications. Further, charging in particular is a different beast than communication in general - you're not doing anything other than sending current down the line to fill a battery. there's only so many ways to do that, and I think it makes sense to consolidate them. Finally - the requirement only states that the device must include a usb-c port for charging. It makes no limitations on manufacturers including additional ports. So even if a direct to consumer device wanted to include a new port - they absolutely could, they just still have to allow filling the battery from usb-c.

scarface74 4y ago
If you as a consumer prefer USB-C, buy a phone using USB-C. Why have the government involved?
- pixl97 4y ago
  I hate to be snarky on HN, but are we from the same planet? In the vast majority of devices you accept what the manufacture gives you or you are out of luck, especially when everything these days is protected by some kind of intellectual property. This excuse is old and tired and tends to ignore that large manufactures purposefully make the customer experience worse for higher profits.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Yes and their plenty of phone manufactures that give you a choice of buying phones with USB-C.
    - yladiz 4y ago
      And plenty don’t.