11 ms·

Can't agree more with the last paragraph. Not too long ago, due to my keyboard breaking, I was forced to type my password manager's master password on an unfami

Can't agree more with the last paragraph. Not too long ago, due to my keyboard breaking, I was forced to type my password manager's master password on an unfamiliar keyboard with an unfamiliar layout, and I just blanked. I type it frequently enough on my phone, so I tried typing it there too, but probably due to a combination of mild distress and actively trying to think about what I was typing I couldn't do it there either. I eventually decided to try again later and later that day I managed to type it correctly. Rest assured, this situation probably sounds as bizarre as it felt. Randomly forgetting something I type every day isn't something I had considered a possibility until then. Maybe a password without as many non-alphanumeric characters would've aided in avoiding this situation, but I get the feeling it could've happened with any muscle-memoried password.

grog454 4y ago
I had a similar problem once. I normally use the dvorak layout but was on a qwerty keyboard. I don't remember exactly why, but I had to muscle-memory type the password as if the keyboard was dvorak and manually remap the characters using an image of a dovrak layout on top of a qwerty keyboard.
- frostwarrior 4y ago
  My approach to that is to follow xkcd advice with an emergency password which looks less like a random string but more like a real world phrase. I try to use my local language and some obscure local slang to avoid being guessed by an international dictionary.
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    > My approach to that is to follow xkcd advice with an emergency password which looks less like a random string but more like a real world phrase. Yeah, for my master password, I use a slightly misheard line from an episode of a 90's TV show. Googling my misheard version in quotes only gets 6 hits, and it's 30 characters long, so very unlikely to get cracked even without replacing letters with symbols or adding a suffix.
isolli 4y ago
It reminds me of the time I tried to type my password on a keyboard with a French layout, but responding as if it had a US layout. It turns out, even if you think you know where all these special characters are, finding them under pressure (three tries before you're locked out) with misleading visual cues is hard!
- ncpa-cpl 4y ago
  Some countries even use more than one keyboard layout, so I try to stick to special chacters that dont change from keyboard layouts. Like dot comma and space.
sabellito 4y ago
Few years ago I went to a store and paid with my card and 4-digit password. Not 20 minutes later, at another store, I just couldn't remember the password anymore, missed it 3 times and got my card blocked. I had to make a new card because I couldn't remember the password to unblock it at the bank. I had that card and password for 3-4 years at that point, wasn't under any stress at all, and nothing like this had ever happened, nor happened again.
- macintux 4y ago
  I’ve had the same experience. Walked up to an ATM for the second time in two days and my 4-digit PIN was simply gone from my memory. I never figured out what it was. That was almost 30 years ago, and thankfully it hasn’t happened again.
  - grogenaut 4y ago
    I use my ATM so infrequently that it's happened to me a few times. I get cash reups selling stuff on Craigslist so I need the ATM like once a year. Luckily my ATM is right next to an in grocery store branch so resetting the pin is 3-5 minutes talking to someone irl
- tarsinge 4y ago
  It has already happened to me blank on the 4-digit PIN I have since more than 5 years. Never thought I could forget something so short I use so often.
- PontifexMinimus 4y ago
  Some bank cards have allowed you to change the number to a more memorable one. The other thing you can do is make a mnemonic story to help you remember it.
- wishfish 4y ago
  I was worried this would happen to me. I made an entry in my notes app. "Doctor Harry Bottomsmith 801-421-8623 9 am Friday" where 4218 was my PIN. That's saved me a few times when I blanked out. This note, in theory, will look completely innocuous in case anyone gets access to my notes.
InCityDreams 4y ago
Mild distress? I don't think that is so rare. But, why are my phone numbers not in the same order as my keyboard numbers! At my bank i drew a blank and had to sit at the assistants desk/ keyboard to fire off the muscles to enter in my old pw, in order to enter in an otu pw they'd generated.
empyrrhicist 4y ago
Had that happen with a four digit numeric bank pin once, and several times since then with pass phrases. I tend to get stuck on whatever wrong pattern I entered first and have to try again later.
DonHopkins 4y ago
I posted this earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21862160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21862160 There's a much more evil prank than that: A user was having a really bizarre problem: They could log in when they were sitting down in a seat in front of the keyboard, but when they were standing in front of the keyboard, their password didn't work! The problem happened every time, so they called for support, who finally figured it out after watching them demonstrate the problem many times: It turned out that some joker had rearranged the numbers keys on the keyboard, so they were ordered "0123456789" instead of "1234567890". And the user's password had a digit in it. When the user was sitting down comfortably in front of the keyboard, they looked at the screen while they touch-typed their password, and were able to log in. But when they were standing in front of the computer, they looked at the keyboard and pressed the numbers they saw, which were wrong!
- alistairSH 4y ago
  Holy crap. That's amazingly evil. And not at all what I thought you were going to say
- lobocinza 4y ago
  This happened to me ~2 times I think due to exhaustion and/or stress. Just had to sleep to remember.
- chmod775 4y ago
  Many people with mechanical keyboards (as in non-disposable keyboards) can probably relate to this, having put some keys back the wrong way after cleaning.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    It's why the das keyboard with blank key caps was my favorite I've ever owned. It forced me to actually touch-type, rather than touch type the common keys and look for the rest.
    - chmod775 4y ago
grogenaut 4y ago
sometimes i just cant get the password but will get it a bit later when not anxious.
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  You just described tech interviews. ;-)
remram 4y ago
This happened to me, I forgot my Android "pattern", the swiped pin-like thing to unlock the phone. I didn't have a password set. I was able to factory-reset it with my Google account password but I lost recent files that hadn't yet been backed up (photos etc). I just totally blanked. Like you said, the more I thought about it the less I could remember what it was like. It was really scary.
concordDance 4y ago
It's a really scary fact that people try and ignore but: neurons die. They do this all the time. They don't come back. The information associated with them is just gone. Often the information can be reconstructed from other neurons that still work, but not always.
GTP 4y ago
>but I get the feeling it could've happened with any muscle-memoried password. I can confirm this. Many years ago I had to type for the first time a password on a classmate's iPhone (smartphones were just beginning to become common). The problem was that I didn't really know that password: what I remembered was a shape I was "drawing" onto the keyboard, which involved the numeric keypad... You see were this is going. That event was the one that led me to finally properly memorize that password.
NoPicklez 4y ago
I've done this so many times. A small annoyance is when I need to change my iPhone passcode because of it being work managed. The keyboard used during that reset is slightly different to the regular iPhone keyboard. Throws my muscle memory off.
efreak 4y ago
My method of solving this is to only use familiar, well known information about myself as my master password. It's > 50 characters and contains addresses, old ID numbers, my public library card number, account numbers, old usernames from 5th grade (I've never seen another username even remotely close to either my first IRC name or my geocities username). I usually get the order wrong the first time I try it, but correct on the second or third.

grog454 4y ago

I had a similar problem once. I normally use the dvorak layout but was on a qwerty keyboard. I don't remember exactly why, but I had to muscle-memory type the password as if the keyboard was dvorak and manually remap the characters using an image of a dovrak layout on top of a qwerty keyboard.

frostwarrior 4y ago
My approach to that is to follow xkcd advice with an emergency password which looks less like a random string but more like a real world phrase. I try to use my local language and some obscure local slang to avoid being guessed by an international dictionary.
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  > My approach to that is to follow xkcd advice with an emergency password which looks less like a random string but more like a real world phrase. Yeah, for my master password, I use a slightly misheard line from an episode of a 90's TV show. Googling my misheard version in quotes only gets 6 hits, and it's 30 characters long, so very unlikely to get cracked even without replacing letters with symbols or adding a suffix.

isolli 4y ago

It reminds me of the time I tried to type my password on a keyboard with a French layout, but responding as if it had a US layout. It turns out, even if you think you know where all these special characters are, finding them under pressure (three tries before you're locked out) with misleading visual cues is hard!

ncpa-cpl 4y ago
Some countries even use more than one keyboard layout, so I try to stick to special chacters that dont change from keyboard layouts. Like dot comma and space.

sabellito 4y ago

Few years ago I went to a store and paid with my card and 4-digit password. Not 20 minutes later, at another store, I just couldn't remember the password anymore, missed it 3 times and got my card blocked. I had to make a new card because I couldn't remember the password to unblock it at the bank. I had that card and password for 3-4 years at that point, wasn't under any stress at all, and nothing like this had ever happened, nor happened again.

macintux 4y ago
I’ve had the same experience. Walked up to an ATM for the second time in two days and my 4-digit PIN was simply gone from my memory. I never figured out what it was. That was almost 30 years ago, and thankfully it hasn’t happened again.
- grogenaut 4y ago
  I use my ATM so infrequently that it's happened to me a few times. I get cash reups selling stuff on Craigslist so I need the ATM like once a year. Luckily my ATM is right next to an in grocery store branch so resetting the pin is 3-5 minutes talking to someone irl
tarsinge 4y ago
It has already happened to me blank on the 4-digit PIN I have since more than 5 years. Never thought I could forget something so short I use so often.
PontifexMinimus 4y ago
Some bank cards have allowed you to change the number to a more memorable one. The other thing you can do is make a mnemonic story to help you remember it.
wishfish 4y ago
I was worried this would happen to me. I made an entry in my notes app. "Doctor Harry Bottomsmith 801-421-8623 9 am Friday" where 4218 was my PIN. That's saved me a few times when I blanked out. This note, in theory, will look completely innocuous in case anyone gets access to my notes.

InCityDreams 4y ago

Mild distress? I don't think that is so rare. But, why are my phone numbers not in the same order as my keyboard numbers! At my bank i drew a blank and had to sit at the assistants desk/ keyboard to fire off the muscles to enter in my old pw, in order to enter in an otu pw they'd generated.

empyrrhicist 4y ago

Had that happen with a four digit numeric bank pin once, and several times since then with pass phrases. I tend to get stuck on whatever wrong pattern I entered first and have to try again later.

DonHopkins 4y ago

I posted this earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21862160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21862160 There's a much more evil prank than that: A user was having a really bizarre problem: They could log in when they were sitting down in a seat in front of the keyboard, but when they were standing in front of the keyboard, their password didn't work! The problem happened every time, so they called for support, who finally figured it out after watching them demonstrate the problem many times: It turned out that some joker had rearranged the numbers keys on the keyboard, so they were ordered "0123456789" instead of "1234567890". And the user's password had a digit in it. When the user was sitting down comfortably in front of the keyboard, they looked at the screen while they touch-typed their password, and were able to log in. But when they were standing in front of the computer, they looked at the keyboard and pressed the numbers they saw, which were wrong!

alistairSH 4y ago
Holy crap. That's amazingly evil. And not at all what I thought you were going to say
lobocinza 4y ago
This happened to me ~2 times I think due to exhaustion and/or stress. Just had to sleep to remember.
chmod775 4y ago
Many people with mechanical keyboards (as in non-disposable keyboards) can probably relate to this, having put some keys back the wrong way after cleaning.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  It's why the das keyboard with blank key caps was my favorite I've ever owned. It forced me to actually touch-type, rather than touch type the common keys and look for the rest.
  - chmod775 4y ago

grogenaut 4y ago

sometimes i just cant get the password but will get it a bit later when not anxious.

mixmastamyk 4y ago
You just described tech interviews. ;-)

remram 4y ago

This happened to me, I forgot my Android "pattern", the swiped pin-like thing to unlock the phone. I didn't have a password set. I was able to factory-reset it with my Google account password but I lost recent files that hadn't yet been backed up (photos etc). I just totally blanked. Like you said, the more I thought about it the less I could remember what it was like. It was really scary.

concordDance 4y ago

It's a really scary fact that people try and ignore but: neurons die. They do this all the time. They don't come back. The information associated with them is just gone. Often the information can be reconstructed from other neurons that still work, but not always.

GTP 4y ago

>but I get the feeling it could've happened with any muscle-memoried password. I can confirm this. Many years ago I had to type for the first time a password on a classmate's iPhone (smartphones were just beginning to become common). The problem was that I didn't really know that password: what I remembered was a shape I was "drawing" onto the keyboard, which involved the numeric keypad... You see were this is going. That event was the one that led me to finally properly memorize that password.

NoPicklez 4y ago

I've done this so many times. A small annoyance is when I need to change my iPhone passcode because of it being work managed. The keyboard used during that reset is slightly different to the regular iPhone keyboard. Throws my muscle memory off.

efreak 4y ago

My method of solving this is to only use familiar, well known information about myself as my master password. It's > 50 characters and contains addresses, old ID numbers, my public library card number, account numbers, old usernames from 5th grade (I've never seen another username even remotely close to either my first IRC name or my geocities username). I usually get the order wrong the first time I try it, but correct on the second or third.