3 ms·

Yeah, but that's not how things work in reality. There is a large number of studies on the positive effects of integration in education, from more extreme case

by carlob 4y ago

Yeah, but that's not how things work in reality. There is a large number of studies on the positive effects of integration in education, from more extreme cases such as not having special schools for disabled children to the more mundane socioeconomic mixing. The consensus seems to be that the positive academic effect a smart kid gets from being put in some advanced school is trumped by the negative effect on the average kids. European countries with a strong egalitarian bend in their schooling system seem to do much better than the American ones and not just on average.

buescher 4y ago
>European countries with a strong egalitarian bend in their schooling system Europe is not some fantasy-land where all the dreams of the American left come true. Most European countries track students into separate secondary schools based on their demonstrated academic ability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_secondary_education_systems_by_country#Secondary_education_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_secondary_education_sy...
- carlob 4y ago
  As an Italian, I know that very well. In my country the high school system very much reflects the socio-economic class of the parents and this separation was designed during fascism and left pretty much unchanged. When I said "European countries with a strong egalitarian bend in their schooling system" I was thinking more about countries like Finland and Scandinavia rather than implying that all European countries are egalitarian.
  - buescher 4y ago
    I didn't know about the Bottai reform. Apparently the fascists invented middle school, possibly independently. Who knew? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liceo_classico#The_Bottai_reform_and_the_born_current_%22liceo_classico%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liceo_classico#The_Bottai_refo... From what I gather, Finland and Sweden both track students into separate "academic" and "vocational" secondary schools.
shakow 4y ago
> countries with a strong egalitarian bend in their schooling system seem to do much better than the American ones and not just on average. I'm not sure; France and Russia and their selective systems, respectively classes préparatoires and elite schools, do not seem to do worse than other European countries.

by carlob 4y ago

buescher 4y ago

>European countries with a strong egalitarian bend in their schooling system Europe is not some fantasy-land where all the dreams of the American left come true. Most European countries track students into separate secondary schools based on their demonstrated academic ability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_secondary_education_systems_by_country#Secondary_education_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_secondary_education_sy...

carlob 4y ago
As an Italian, I know that very well. In my country the high school system very much reflects the socio-economic class of the parents and this separation was designed during fascism and left pretty much unchanged. When I said "European countries with a strong egalitarian bend in their schooling system" I was thinking more about countries like Finland and Scandinavia rather than implying that all European countries are egalitarian.
- buescher 4y ago
  I didn't know about the Bottai reform. Apparently the fascists invented middle school, possibly independently. Who knew? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liceo_classico#The_Bottai_reform_and_the_born_current_%22liceo_classico%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liceo_classico#The_Bottai_refo... From what I gather, Finland and Sweden both track students into separate "academic" and "vocational" secondary schools.

shakow 4y ago

> countries with a strong egalitarian bend in their schooling system seem to do much better than the American ones and not just on average. I'm not sure; France and Russia and their selective systems, respectively classes préparatoires and elite schools, do not seem to do worse than other European countries.