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Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. I used over 10 different USB-C docks from different vendo

by mrjin 4y ago

Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. I used over 10 different USB-C docks from different vendors. It doesn't matter which vendor, they all have various issues. They might be perfectly fine for some machines but lots lots of troubles for some other machines which are also perfectly fine with some of the other docks. I have never seen something worse than that.

adrr 4y ago
Issue I had with docks is that I was using the wrong cable. You need a thunderbolt cable that can support higher wattage.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. 1) How is it the spec's fault that random OEMs go to extreme cost cutting measures in order to price dump themselves to the bottom by not following the spec? Of course they won't work properly. But again, for the 100th time, that's not the specs fault that manufacturers actively choose to ignore it. If a driver chooses to knowingly run a red light, is it automatically the fault of the spec (the highway code) ? 2) You're moving the goalposts. We are talking about USB-C charging spec here that's super easy to follow, and Nintendo didn't, not USB-C docs with display-port and other fluff. So this dock example doesn't apply to Nintendos' refusal to follow the charging spec.
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point? If the switch isn’t actually working as intended they shouldn’t be allowed to call it usb-c. There should be some minimum mandatory requirements. I haven’t studied these spec, but if there exists a min spec to qualify to call yourself USB and the switch case isn’t covered, OR, there’s no minimum spec, it IS the spec’s fault.
  - colejohnson66 4y ago
    The USB consortium seemingly refuses to do anything that would hamper adoption, even if it's bad for consumers. They could make a list of icons that products can put on if they support. So a cable that supports 15W charging would indicate it with a little icon on the product or packaging. Then mandate a testing procedure, where failure to follow it or lying about the results is trademark infringement.
    - danhor 4y ago
      That's ... exactly what happened? https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_type-c_cable_power_rating_logo_usage_guidelines_020222.pdf https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_type-c_cable_pow... (for an older example without cable ratings: https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb-if_logo_usage_guidelines_final_as_of_november_30_2018_locked.pdf https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb-if_logo_usage_gu...) It's just that no one cares. Some vendors now let the USB-IF compliance test most products (Amazon Basics, Apple), but no consumer cares. Even amongst the ones which do certify their product, no one uses the logo.
  - iainmerrick 4y ago
    Hmm, maybe the EU could step in and help regulate this stuff!
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point? What is the point of anything then? Most pieces of tech we take for granted are an unregulated bundle of specs that more or less work together with one another most of the time well enough to be valued at several trillions and be in every household. If you want to regulate and certify every USB-C cable in your household then increase prices would stop the adoption of any such tech and you would then complain about the costs and over-regulation. The EU is already regulating USB-C into place. How much more regulation do you want? Let's not let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'good'. Remember 20 years ago when every phone and electronic widget in your house came with its own proprietary cable and proprietary interface and included CD with proprietary Windows-only software to work? Yeah! Lost the original cable/dock with the proprietary 20-pin connector? Good luck with that mate. Yes, USB-C still has teething problems due to manufacturers cutting costs and fighting tooth and nail against standardization so they can keep their walled garden rent seeking models of the past (remember Sony shoving their proprietary Memory-Stick everywhere despite SD cards having won?), but despite these issues, we've never had it so good in terms of cross-compatibility as we have it today and this push for USB-C everything is a step in the right direction.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Looks this isn’t that complicated, what people want is the ability to know that I all conforming USB-C cables are identical and can be interchanged freely. I don’t give two shits about the devices at the ends not being able to negotiate or different power bricks charging faster or slower.

by mrjin 4y ago

adrr 4y ago

Issue I had with docks is that I was using the wrong cable. You need a thunderbolt cable that can support higher wattage.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. 1) How is it the spec's fault that random OEMs go to extreme cost cutting measures in order to price dump themselves to the bottom by not following the spec? Of course they won't work properly. But again, for the 100th time, that's not the specs fault that manufacturers actively choose to ignore it. If a driver chooses to knowingly run a red light, is it automatically the fault of the spec (the highway code) ? 2) You're moving the goalposts. We are talking about USB-C charging spec here that's super easy to follow, and Nintendo didn't, not USB-C docs with display-port and other fluff. So this dock example doesn't apply to Nintendos' refusal to follow the charging spec.

8ytecoder 4y ago
Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point? If the switch isn’t actually working as intended they shouldn’t be allowed to call it usb-c. There should be some minimum mandatory requirements. I haven’t studied these spec, but if there exists a min spec to qualify to call yourself USB and the switch case isn’t covered, OR, there’s no minimum spec, it IS the spec’s fault.
- colejohnson66 4y ago
  The USB consortium seemingly refuses to do anything that would hamper adoption, even if it's bad for consumers. They could make a list of icons that products can put on if they support. So a cable that supports 15W charging would indicate it with a little icon on the product or packaging. Then mandate a testing procedure, where failure to follow it or lying about the results is trademark infringement.
  - danhor 4y ago
    That's ... exactly what happened? https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_type-c_cable_power_rating_logo_usage_guidelines_020222.pdf https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_type-c_cable_pow... (for an older example without cable ratings: https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb-if_logo_usage_guidelines_final_as_of_november_30_2018_locked.pdf https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb-if_logo_usage_gu...) It's just that no one cares. Some vendors now let the USB-IF compliance test most products (Amazon Basics, Apple), but no consumer cares. Even amongst the ones which do certify their product, no one uses the logo.
- iainmerrick 4y ago
  Hmm, maybe the EU could step in and help regulate this stuff!
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point? What is the point of anything then? Most pieces of tech we take for granted are an unregulated bundle of specs that more or less work together with one another most of the time well enough to be valued at several trillions and be in every household. If you want to regulate and certify every USB-C cable in your household then increase prices would stop the adoption of any such tech and you would then complain about the costs and over-regulation. The EU is already regulating USB-C into place. How much more regulation do you want? Let's not let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'good'. Remember 20 years ago when every phone and electronic widget in your house came with its own proprietary cable and proprietary interface and included CD with proprietary Windows-only software to work? Yeah! Lost the original cable/dock with the proprietary 20-pin connector? Good luck with that mate. Yes, USB-C still has teething problems due to manufacturers cutting costs and fighting tooth and nail against standardization so they can keep their walled garden rent seeking models of the past (remember Sony shoving their proprietary Memory-Stick everywhere despite SD cards having won?), but despite these issues, we've never had it so good in terms of cross-compatibility as we have it today and this push for USB-C everything is a step in the right direction.
Spivak 4y ago
Looks this isn’t that complicated, what people want is the ability to know that I all conforming USB-C cables are identical and can be interchanged freely. I don’t give two shits about the devices at the ends not being able to negotiate or different power bricks charging faster or slower.