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>It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. People and companies can screw thing up royally regardless of spec complexity when th

>It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. People and companies can screw thing up royally regardless of spec complexity when there's no review/oversight involved. That's not a valid argument. If you want to force and check adherence to a spec you need to involve certification authorities (TÜV, SGS, UL, etc.) but then widget prices would increase dramatically. Edit: to address the child comments below: who gets to be the judge of the complexity of the spec? If Nintendo fucked it up but some EE students can get it right through side projects on github, does that make the spec complex or does that make Nintendo incompetent (lacks a HW review/qualification process)? The spec could be as simple as "white wire goes to positive terminal, black wire goes to negative terminal" and there's still the chance of an implementation fuckup in the design pipeline, especially in large projects/companies with distributed siloed teams like Nintendo due to poor internal communication, if there is no proper internal review/qualification process in the design loop. Edit 2: I looked at the USB-C charging specs and they're easy enough to understand for any graduate EE and for any company who's had some basic experience with USB as a whole, let alone 100 year old multi-billion HW conglomerates like Nintendo. IMHO, Nintendo's USB-C charging fuckup is 100% on them. I wish people would stop needlessly defending them here. Edit 3: Also, what if Nintendo intentionally chose not to follow the spec in order to force the users to use and buy only original parts from them? Either way, incompetence or malice, you really can't blame the spec here.

remus 4y ago
I think it's a reasonable point. A more complex spec is going to be harder to implement correctly.
- falcolas 4y ago
  And more expensive to boot.
rhn_mk1 4y ago
It is a valid argument because the more complicated the spec, the easier to mess up the implementation.
mrjin 4y ago
Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. I used over 10 different USB-C docks from different vendors. It doesn't matter which vendor, they all have various issues. They might be perfectly fine for some machines but lots lots of troubles for some other machines which are also perfectly fine with some of the other docks. I have never seen something worse than that.
- adrr 4y ago
  Issue I had with docks is that I was using the wrong cable. You need a thunderbolt cable that can support higher wattage.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. 1) How is it the spec's fault that random OEMs go to extreme cost cutting measures in order to price dump themselves to the bottom by not following the spec? Of course they won't work properly. But again, for the 100th time, that's not the specs fault that manufacturers actively choose to ignore it. If a driver chooses to knowingly run a red light, is it automatically the fault of the spec (the highway code) ? 2) You're moving the goalposts. We are talking about USB-C charging spec here that's super easy to follow, and Nintendo didn't, not USB-C docs with display-port and other fluff. So this dock example doesn't apply to Nintendos' refusal to follow the charging spec.
  - 8ytecoder 4y ago
    Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point? If the switch isn’t actually working as intended they shouldn’t be allowed to call it usb-c. There should be some minimum mandatory requirements. I haven’t studied these spec, but if there exists a min spec to qualify to call yourself USB and the switch case isn’t covered, OR, there’s no minimum spec, it IS the spec’s fault.
    - colejohnson66 4y ago
RF_Savage 4y ago
Wasn't USB-C power delivery spec 600pages long on release? And now with the addition of the 48volt high power charging mode it is even longer with more requirements.

remus 4y ago

I think it's a reasonable point. A more complex spec is going to be harder to implement correctly.

falcolas 4y ago
And more expensive to boot.

rhn_mk1 4y ago

It is a valid argument because the more complicated the spec, the easier to mess up the implementation.

mrjin 4y ago

Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. I used over 10 different USB-C docks from different vendors. It doesn't matter which vendor, they all have various issues. They might be perfectly fine for some machines but lots lots of troubles for some other machines which are also perfectly fine with some of the other docks. I have never seen something worse than that.

adrr 4y ago
Issue I had with docks is that I was using the wrong cable. You need a thunderbolt cable that can support higher wattage.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. 1) How is it the spec's fault that random OEMs go to extreme cost cutting measures in order to price dump themselves to the bottom by not following the spec? Of course they won't work properly. But again, for the 100th time, that's not the specs fault that manufacturers actively choose to ignore it. If a driver chooses to knowingly run a red light, is it automatically the fault of the spec (the highway code) ? 2) You're moving the goalposts. We are talking about USB-C charging spec here that's super easy to follow, and Nintendo didn't, not USB-C docs with display-port and other fluff. So this dock example doesn't apply to Nintendos' refusal to follow the charging spec.
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point? If the switch isn’t actually working as intended they shouldn’t be allowed to call it usb-c. There should be some minimum mandatory requirements. I haven’t studied these spec, but if there exists a min spec to qualify to call yourself USB and the switch case isn’t covered, OR, there’s no minimum spec, it IS the spec’s fault.
  - colejohnson66 4y ago

RF_Savage 4y ago

Wasn't USB-C power delivery spec 600pages long on release? And now with the addition of the 48volt high power charging mode it is even longer with more requirements.